HB1244 - Firearms on business premises

[SteveM4A1]

Why not?

Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence.

Louis Brandeis, Whitney v. California

Yes, this case applies specifically to government suppression of speech. But the principle regarding liberty remains the same. Do not exalt order at the cost of liberty. The remedy for evil speech is more speech.

Unless there is a tangible impact to the business (e.g. customers leave due to the exercised expression, thereby denying the business owner sales from those customers), I have a very hard time supporting the suppression of freedom of expression in a public place.

Customers would leave, and customers would be uncomfortable, whether that is the intent or not of the individual wearing the shirt. Maybe it was the only clean shirt he/she had to wear that day. Guns are controversial as well, and could cause business owners to lose customers. The business should not be forced to accept any nut that comes through its doors, especially if they are forcing the business to lose money.

 

[chipbennett]

Guns are controversial as well, and could cause business owners to lose customers.

Everything else aside: I'm guessing, statistically speaking, there's about as much chance of this happening as there is of an accidental death due to negligent discharge. Something that is all but statistically insignificant should not be the basis for infringing a right as basic and critical as the right to life exercised through RKBA.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Everything else aside: I'm guessing, statistically speaking, there's about as much chance of this happening as there is of an accidental death due to negligent discharge. Something that is all but statistically insignificant should not be the basis for infringing a right as basic and critical as the right to life exercised through RKBA.

All we can do is guess the statistics, but I am certain businesses have lost money due to a gun carrier before (look at the MDA groceriesnotguns or whatever). Businesses have lost my money due to the behavior of other customers, so I don't find it to be a stretch.

 

[chipbennett]

All we can do is guess the statistics, but I am certain businesses have lost money due to a gun carrier before (look at the MDA groceriesnotguns or whatever). Businesses have lost my money due to the behavior of other customers, so I don't find it to be a stretch.

Kroger has actually gained business since MDA started trying to bully them.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Kroger has actually gained business since MDA started trying to bully them.

Is there a cite for this? I have read it but haven't actually seen evidence.

All arguments aside, I don't think this has a chance of passing

 

[chipbennett]

Is there a cite for this? I have read it but haven't actually seen evidence.

All arguments aside, I don't think this has a chance of passing

Kroger Q3 Earnings Beat on Higher Sales, Raises Outlook - December 4, 2014 - Zacks.com

Total sales (including fuel center sales) grew 11.2% to $24,987 million from the prior-year quarter, and also came ahead of the Zacks Consensus Estimate of $24,847 million. Management stated that excluding fuel center sales, total sales rose 13.7%.


Identical supermarket sales (stores that are open without expansion or relocation for five full quarters) excluding fuel center sales, increased 5.6% to $18,929 million. Kroger now envisions identical supermarket sales (excluding fuel) growth of 4% to 5% for the fourth quarter.


Including fuel center sales, identical supermarket sales jumped 4.7% to $22,308 million. We believe that Kroger’s dominant position enables it to expand store base and boost market share.


Kroger’s customer-centric business model provides a strong value proposition to consumers. It is well positioned to continue its growth momentum primarily through identical supermarket sales growth. However, Kroger is not immune to the tough economic environment. The intensifying price war among grocery stores to lure budget-constrained consumers may adversely impact Kroger’s sales and margins.


Operating income jumped 21.9% year-over-year to $651 million, whereas operating margin expanded 20 basis points to 2.6%.