Hawaii Rejection of Right to Bear Arms

[JohnLloydScharf]

Hot coffee spills that require skin grafting to remedy is not just 'hot coffee'. What's the legal limit on how close you can set a pot of boiling water to a toddler? Right. "There's no legal limit" isn't a valid argument against creating a condition you know, or should know, creates a substantial risk of severe injury. You're obviously free to believe it's mere frivolity when coffee requires a multiple day hospital stay to recover from, but I think you'll find little company there.

If you guns and hot coffee have rules of use. We do not take away your guns or coffee without due process. When someone says you must give up rights for the greater good, always REMEMBER - the GREATER good is FREEDOM!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If you guns and hot coffee have rules of use. We do not take away your guns or coffee without due process. When someone says you must give up rights for the greater good, always REMEMBER - the GREATER good is FREEDOM!

 

[BugI02]

Oh well, since we're still doing this, I believe the complaint about the previous chart was 3rd degree burns were not mentioned

Note the heading at the top of the rightmost column and the times to permanent injury as well as the temps being within the claimed 'normal' serving range of coffee



In an attempt to start angling this back towards the original thread direction, I was unable to find a Hawaiian state standard coffee service temperature requirement nor any mention of what the aloha spirit might require of hot beverage service

 

[Twangbanger]

That is an awful amount of lead and requires a three man crew... You can whip up "Mother of Satan" to do the same job from nail polish remover and hair bleach. Remember it should smell fruit-like, not bleach-like, when pure. I was looking for a primer mix when I happened on this substitute for firearms. It is only half as explosive as TNT.

When they outlaw brains and opposable thumbs, only agents of tyranny will have assault weapons. I mentioned this recipe on Youtube and was visited by two agents of the FBI about a decade ago.

I told them I do not even believe in capital punishment or abortion because deadly force is justified only when undertaken to prevent imminent and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent.

I am not a killer, but I am willing to give felons engaged in crime a six pack or buck wheats. A live criminal compelled to testify against themselves in court is better in civil court than a dead "saint" whose "wrongful death" requires millions in reparations.

A six pack hits both elbows, both knees, and both ankles to disable an attacker. Buck wheats is a shot up the ass.
A shot just right of the belly button inserts a one centimeter lead kidney stone to permanently disable in a wheelchair with a colostomy bag.

Having had my gallbladder die due to a gall stone, I have had the pain of being gut shot simulated. I almost cut my thumb off and did not go to get sewn up, but I went to an ER and suspended my hatred of witchdoctor masked menaces for three days. IT took that long for the antibiotics to do their job. I am no masochist, but I am an enlightened sadist.

I invite any robber, rapist, torturer, or murderer to "feel my pain" if they offer me theirs. I am sure they would prefer a 6x8 cell 23 hours a day. Unfortunately, there is not enough room for them all in prisons and jails in NYC, so they have to take a number. I think Ellis and Plume Island should be put to use.

***Best of INGO Nomination ***

I thought Buckwheats was a discontinued cereal...

 

[auedotq]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but how did we get from Hawaii rejects the 2A to hot coffee spills lol.

 

[red_zr24x4]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but how did we get from Hawaii rejects the 2A to hot coffee spills lol.

I see you're new here, pull up a chair and enjoy. Just don't try to figure it out, enjoy it for what it is

 

[indykid]

Was going to comment on being a Haole in Hawaii but got confused after finding out the thread title, and the continued hot coffee discussion don't jibe.

 

[Hoosier Carry]

I see you're new here, pull up a chair and enjoy. Just don't try to figure it out, enjoy it for what it is

Sometimes you just have to get in there and hang on.

Came to read about Hawaii and then,”SQUIRREL”, Its hot coffee at McDonald’s time!

 

[Hoosier Carry]

common sense knows would cause that level of injury.

Common sense allows me to know not to put a hot liquid in a flexible cup where the lid will likely open up and then burn the chit out of me. But thats just me. We have warning labels now, so problem solved!

 

[foszoe]

No. You're stupid. You did a thing everyone with a hint of common sense knows would cause that level of injury. That scenario remains a strawman to what's under discussion, however....in your stupid guy with a stove strawman.

I was a latch key kid. Cooked at home, had chemistry sets and electronics kits....I loved science.

I had 2 experiments that went really bad.

I read that one could make carbon by adding heat to sugar. Ruined one of mom's favorite pans testing that one out.

Then I wondered if, once a burner is turned off and quits glowing cherry red, is it still hot? Using my hand, i tested that hypothesis. It was.

Decades later, I find out that qualifies me as stupid. All along I had been on the fence about it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Common sense allows me to know not to put a hot liquid in a flexible cup where the lid will likely open up and then burn the chit out of me.

Sure. And nobody, including the people involved in the original case dispute that. However it's not so binary as you're trying to make it. I can be at fault for the spill and they can be at fault for the injury being much more significant than the assumed risk was. A similar, if not exact, example is the Takata airbags. It's my fault I rammed my garage wall by hitting the gas instead of the brake. It's their fault they built a Claymore instead of an airbag. Two things can be true. We can both have some proportion of the blame for my resulting injury. In the actual case of the coffee, the person spilling is on the hook for the spill and the "normal" injuries, pain and redness. The entity serving coffee is on the hook for the injury above that normal.

It's honestly not that controversial if you don't think of fault and risk as binary yes/no conditions but a sliding scale. Everyone reading this lives their life that way. You routinely analyze risk and accept it or not based on your perception of that risk. You accept risk driving your car that you would not accept in a dishwasher. You understand that if you make a mistake with your car you could die. You understand that for a car to do the things you want it to do, it must also be capable of causing your death should you accidentally use it improperly. However you would never accept the same level of risk from a dishwasher and would rightfully ask why having the capability to cause your death is relevant to it's ability to perform the function of washing dishes.

Just so everyone is on the same page, photo of the injuries:

Nobody reasonably expects a drink made for human consumption to cause that level of injury if accidentally spilled.

 

[KellyinAvon]

If anybody wants to start a McDonalds Coffee thread in say, the Break Room and not in the 2A Legislation sub-forum I'd be all for that.

If you read that as "keep this thread on the subject of the Hawaiian Rejection of the Right to Bear Arms" then you are on the right track.

 

[indyblue]

What was that coffee made out of?
Sulfuric acid?

That is a startling injury for just one cup of hot liquid.

And just to stay on topic, this better get slapped down right quick.

 

[Hoosier Carry]

If anybody wants to start a McDonalds Coffee thread in say, the Break Room and not in the 2A Legislation sub-forum I'd be all for that.

If you read that as "keep this thread on the subject of the Hawaiian Rejection of the Right to Bear Arms" then you are on the right track.

Sorry a little boredom reading today. Message understood.

 

[BugI02]

If anybody wants to start a McDonalds Coffee thread in say, the Break Room and not in the 2A Legislation sub-forum I'd be all for that.

If you read that as "keep this thread on the subject of the Hawaiian Rejection of the Right to Bear Arms" then you are on the right track.

Ditches mentioned were not

Disappointed I am

 

[KellyinAvon]

Ditches mentioned were not

Disappointed I am

Ditches, between them keep the thread you will.

 

[D.R.SCOTT]

They do cite "the spirit of Aloha" as one reason for the decision. I wonder if that's grounds for a religious rights lawsuit

 

[cbhausen]

Ditches, between them keep the thread you will.

 

[JAL]

They do cite "the spirit of Aloha" as one reason for the decision. I wonder if that's grounds for a religious rights lawsuit

Who knows what ancillary legal ploys their decision and its dicta will inspire and/or enable. It's that off the rails. The most imaginative and inventive attorneys will certainly gain notoriety and fame exploiting it.

Were the Hawaiian Supremes toking on their hashish bongs too hard when they wrote the decision? Were they high on fumes from their active volcanoes? Consuming weird mushrooms? Did someone bring in Alice B. Toklas brownies from home and share them with the court? It defies any rational explanation based on and derived from the Hawaiian and U.S. Constitutions. They turned back the hands of time 126 years in a Mr. Peabody (and Sherman) Wayback Machine to before 1898 and Hawaii's annexation as a U.S. Territory.

I was thinking Wilson would have to take it to the Hawaiian Fed District Court, but Guy Relford corrected things last Saturday during his WIBC radio show. Wilson can go straight to SCOTUS with a Petition for Writ of Cert. from state courts after all appeals there are completely exhausted. If he pursues it, he has 90 calendar days to file it from the final Hawaiian Supreme Court Decision being published (if Day 90 lands on weekend/holiday, it's first business day following). One of the mechanisms when you start out in state courts. Doesn't shorten the time though. It's still taken years of appeals. It is a criminal case, so it could result in a narrow "As Applied to Defendant" decision. We will have to see what Wilson does and it could take up to approx. three months.

Note that you can also get a case removed to a Fed Court . . . if the Fed Court has jurisdiction, including its subject matter, and it could have been initially filed there. Not applicable here by any path I can see from a state criminal case.

 

[ZurokSlayer7X9]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but how did we get from Hawaii rejects the 2A to hot coffee spills lol.

Conversations naturally "roll" from one subject to another when a relevant tangent is made. This is actually tame compared to some of the political threads or the discussion threads like the OSUT (a thread dedicated to shooting the s***). IMHO, this place would be a lot less interesting if the subject didn't stray from time to time. Fortunately the mods keep it from devolving into a flame war.