Hamas Launches Infiltration, Rocket Attack on Israel

[BugI02]

Well. If you were a German would you have helped Hitler too? Would you deserve any sympathy?

My take on it. The people who are innocently killed in Gaza deserve sympathy. The ones who are used against their will as human shields are innocent. It’s hard to parse out who is innocent and who are willing participants. Some certainly are innocent. Some certainly are taking part with Hamas.

It's war. There are functional limits on precision, innocent people get killed

"The Lord will know his own"

 

[DadSmith]

Biden's decades of support for Israel helps him push for desired war conduct

President Joe Biden's decades of support for Israel has provided him with the leeway to push his vision for its war in Gaza when Tel Aviv deviates too far away from it.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[DadSmith]

 

[DadSmith]

 

[JTKelly]

Well. If you were a German would you have helped Hitler too? Would you deserve any sympathy?

My take on it. The people who are innocently killed in Gaza deserve sympathy. The ones who are used against their will as human shields are innocent. It’s hard to parse out who is innocent and who are willing participants. Some certainly are innocent. Some certainly are taking part with Hamas.

Let God sort them out or God will be sorting US out.

 

[DadSmith]

 

[jamil]

If I had been born an Aztec (back in the day) I would probably think conquering neighboring tribes and sacrificing them to appease the gods was a great thing. It does not mean that non-Aztecs should tolerate my views or indulge my fantasies. I do not buy into the moral relativism that all cultures are equal. Some are just evil and should not be tolerated, let alone appeased.

What? Where did anyone say all cultures are equal? I don't believe that.

I'm not asking you not to judge people who are doing bad things. But, you're judging people for doing things you would do too if you were born into their culture. After disparaging Germans, I asked you if you really think you'd have been one of the few that didn't back Hitler. Never got an answer on that.

I go back to the question of what about the people who don't want to be human shields, vs the people who are eager? Are they both evil or is one more evil than the other? I'll tolerate the innocent while not tolerating the guilty. You can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. It's a matter having a picture fine enough resolution so you can tell the innocent from the evil. If I squint, hell they all look the same.

 

[jamil]

In 100 years we’ll all be thrown in this same boat -“they asked for it” - and we know we did not. We didn’t vote for what we have now. But we didn’t fight our way out of it either. And we have the means.

The point is that maybe we should question our confidence about what we would do until reality reveals it in the moment.

 

[jamil]

It's war. There are functional limits on precision, innocent people get killed

"The Lord will know his own"

Sure. And I feel sympathy for people who lose love ones who were innocent. Because innocent people die in war doesn't mean we must be apathetic about it.

 

[jamil]

Let God sort them out or God will be sorting US out.

Not buying that.

 

[rbhargan]

What? Where did anyone say all cultures are equal? I don't believe that.

I never said that you or anyone else on INGO said that. However, moral relativism is a mainstay of "woke" culture. It is very popular in academia and can be seen in the "it is not our place to criticize other cultures" tripe that passes for intellectualism in the West. Most of the Hamas apologists embrace it as a given.

 

[rbhargan]

I'm not asking you not to judge people who are doing bad things. But, you're judging people for doing things you would do too if you were born into their culture. After disparaging Germans, I asked you if you really think you'd have been one of the few that didn't back Hitler. Never got an answer on that.

Actually, I did address that, although indirectly - see my comment regarding Aztecs.

If a person was raised to believe that murder, rape and torture were permissible, should they be given a pass if they commit those crimes? Or should they be held accountable?

 

[rbhargan]

I go back to the question of what about the people who don't want to be human shields, vs the people who are eager? Are they both evil or is one more evil than the other? I'll tolerate the innocent while not tolerating the guilty. You can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. It's a matter having a picture fine enough resolution so you can tell the innocent from the evil. If I squint, hell they all look the same.

I understand where you going with this - there are people caught up in situations not of their choosing. It happens and is unfortunate. In war, it is inevitable. That does not mean you give the other side a pass.

I believe it was an Israeli PM who said, "There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us." I don't see that happening in my lifetime. Very sad.

 

[jamil]

I understand where you going with this - there are people caught up in situations not of their choosing. It happens and is unfortunate. In war, it is inevitable. That does not mean you give the other side a pass.

I believe it was an Israeli PM who said, "There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us." I don't see that happening in my lifetime. Very sad.

No one gave the other side a pass. Where did you get that?

 

[rbhargan]

No one gave the other side a pass. Where did you get that?

I suppose I am not following your train of thought.

The Israelis are faced with a group that embraces murder, rape, torture, infanticide, and terror and has no reluctance to use non-combatants as shields. Hamas has made clear that the only outcome they will accept is the end of Israel and the genocide of the Jewish people. The people in Gaza are now having to deal with the repercussions arising from the actions of their leadership (and themselves - the terrorists are from Gaza).

What would you have the Israelis do?

 

[BugI02]

Sure. And I feel sympathy for people who lose love ones who were innocent. Because innocent people die in war doesn't mean we must be apathetic about it.

On average, 114 people die in automobile crashes in the US every day. We don't know if they were guilty (impaired, reckless) or innocent (true accidents or run-ins with the guilty)

You don't know them or their families. Do you even think about them or feel 'sympathy for people who lose love[d] ones who were innocent', or if they even rise to the level of conscious thought is it 'meh, that's just the way it is'

Why should war be any different? Maybe I missed all your posts about feeling sorry for the civilians dying in places like Ukraine or Myanmar or Ethiopia or Yemen or Haiti or Syria etc etc

Why are technologically sophisticated combatants expected to deliver bloodless combat? People I don't know or care about die all the time

 

[BugI02]

I suppose I am not following your train of thought.

The key to following the pointless arguments that seem to be just for the sake of arguing is:

W.W.K14.D.

 

[jamil]

I suppose I am not following your train of thought.

The Israelis are faced with a group that embraces murder, rape, torture, infanticide, and terror and has no reluctance to use non-combatants as shields. Hamas has made clear that the only outcome they will accept is the end of Israel and the genocide of the Jewish people. The people in Gaza are now having to deal with the repercussions arising from the actions of their leadership (and themselves - the terrorists are from Gaza).

What would you have the Israelis do?

My post had nothing to do with Israelis. Go back and read the conversation. I don’t mean that in a snarky way. It’s that as you said, you don’t seem to follow.

Just because I challenged you one narrow aspect, doesn’t mean I’m completely against what you said. Somewhere I even said something to the effect that I agreed with most of it. So I think I get to be a bit surprised by “moral relativism”.

 

[jamil]

The key to following the pointless arguments that seem to be just for the sake of arguing is:

W.W.K14.D.

The key to following what I say is to read without reading into it what you want me to have said.

And I don’t consult K’s or J’s to guide me. Do you? Idunno. I can’t really tell.

 

[BugI02]

Is it then so difficult then; to say precisely, unambiguously what you mean?

Or is it just convenient