Brew some coffee and get comfy. Got a feature length Squid rant for you fine gentlemen.
I have come to the belief that the 7.65x53 Mauser cartridge is absolutely genius and far ahead of its time. It was the best first generation smokeless cartridge. Yet has become mostly forgotten about and that's an injustice in my eyes. So I will attempt today to shed some light and perhaps restore some old glory to this engineering marvel.
To prove my point I have to set a baseline and touch on the competition 7.65x53 had in its time of being a first generation smokeless cartridge.
Don your helmets and strap on your reflective belts, some favorite cartridge feelings are going to get hurt.
----------------------------------------
Our baseline is the 308 Winchester. Its development in the 1950s shows an apex of engineering. It takes all the lessons learned from the 1890s through WWII and and deposited them into possibly the most versatile cartridge of all time. Capable of filling many roles and doing a lot of things quite well, and being efficient while doing them too. From battle rifles to belt fed machine guns to sniper rifles to hunting rifles
-It is not too weak, not too powerful
-it is not too long, or short
-it doesn't have a rim
-it doesn't have excessive taper
-it has little wasted space
Now that I've managed to anger the .30-06 AND 6.5 Creedmoor crowds.... I can continue my thesis.
When the French developed the first smokeless cartridge in 1886, the rest of the world quickly began development of their own. Thing is...nobody knew what was going to work or what it should even look like. Nobody could have known how technology would change. They could not have predicted the evolution of bolt action, to autoloaders, to machine guns, aircraft and dogfighting. This led to most of the first generation smokeless cartridges being left behind to pursue more optimal cartridges for the changing tasks. Keep this in mind as we continue.
—————————————————
First up in 1886, the granddaddy of them all, France gave us the 8x50R Lebel. As much as I agree to respect elders...... This round is a complete turd. Its got strange bulges and curves like when we try on old high school clothes. Suboptimal bore diameter. A neck and shoulder arrangement so long it might fit in better with those ring neck ladies in Africa. Huge rim, lots of taper. Thank you for your service but I think even the French are glad its gone.
Same said above goes to the 8x50R Mannlicher. You are misshapen and gross and we don't miss you or your vaguely homosexual name.
Next up in 1888 the Germans gave us an early form of the 7.92x57 Mauser called the Patrone 88. Gotta give credit, they got a lot right on this one. Its Rimless! No excessive taper! Very little wasted space with that shoulder / neck arrangement. Problems being that the bore diameter would become sub optimal and the cartridge was just too long and overpowered for the battle rifle generation that came after WWII. Yes, guy with G43 rifle, we know it can be done but you cannot argue that a shorter and lesser powered round would have been a better idea for a rifle people carry.
In 1889 a bunch of gents in fuzzy hats gave us the 303 British. They got the bore diameter right, stepping down to a proper 30 cal. They even got the power level right due to the Lee Enfields handicapping rear locking lugs…….. but that taper….. and rim causing heartaches for box magazines will keep this decent cartridge from the title of best first generation smokeless cartridge.
Apparently keeping trend with shrinking the bore…. Italy gave us the 6.5 Carcano in 1890. Got the length and rim, and shape right but missed the mark with the diameter, and power levels. It’s smaller diameter and energy would prove sub optimal for machine gun use when a guy wants to stuff incindiary goodness into the back of the bullet.
1890 also gave us the early 7.5x55 Swiss called the GP90. A nearly perfect creation. You’re probably wondering why this didn’t take the number one spot. As much as I want this round to take the cake…. Technically it misses the mark for being underpowered. It’s initial offering was very weak due to it going inside of an inferior rear locking rifle. Still, the case design is impressive. It wasn’t until 1911 that the cartridge (and rifle) was updated to a round that is awfully similar to 308. But that would make it a second generation so we march forward.
1892 gave us the .30-40 Krag, or .30 Army. Swing and a miss, where to begin….. huge rim, tons of wasted space, a neck that is long enough to emulate a beer bottle… and again underpowered due to being mated with a weak action. This round and rifle proved to be so much a turd that the United States literally ripped off the Mauser rifle to catch up. I don’t blame them, because it eventually gave us the .30-06. Which gave birth to our dear .308. I hold no malice and choose to just ignore how badly the ordnance department missed the mark.
In 1890 after a vodka fueled spell of inspiration, Russia gave us the 7.62x54R. Let’s be honest here…. This grotesque cartridge should not have been in service as long as it has. It’s persistence is likely due to the Russians remarkable ability to put up with sub optimal crap…. literally forever. They got the diameter right but that’s about it. Slightly awkward and powerful for good auto loading rifles. And again… a rim large enough to enjoy thanksgiving on. Despite my disdain for its shape, it’s track record speaks for itself. And continues to serve honorably as machine gun and sniper rifle cartridge. Bravo, but still not the best first generational smokeless round.
Now that I’ve lost the teenage mosin crowd we can get to the featured cartridge of the thread.
We now return to the humble 7.65x53. Paul Mauser blessed the Belgians with this creation seemingly out of thin air in 1889! This guy… despite not knowing the future … got it perfect right out the gate, genius! It is the perfect form factor to fill all the roles we asked of full power rifle cartridges even today 130 years later. It did in 1889 what we had to come back to in the 50s with the 308. Look at how similar it is to the 308.
-It’s rimless, even uses 308 rim size
-30 caliber
-no excessive taper
-not excessively long
-little wasted space, size efficient
-same power levels as 308
Just look at that handsome neck and shoulder arrangement! It’s so beautiful it makes me want to cry.
In all seriousness I think it’s fall from popularity has nothing to do with its perfection but rather due to much larger political and economic reasons. After WWI, it seemed all eyes were on .30-06, and 8mm Mauser for the future of rifle cartridges. Belgium, Argentina, Chile, everyone else who had the 7.65 rifles just didn’t have the same level of pull and interest that Germany and the United States had.
By about now there is some weirdo wearing his Spanish helmet and glow belt with a rolling block 7x57 Mauser wondering why I forgot him. …..It doesn’t count because Paul made 7x57 3 years AFTER the 7.65 and it’s longer, too much neck / taper, and it’s the wrong diameter (despite me liking 7mm more than 7.62). You may leave now sir, good day.
Before you speak up ….guy with 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser…..yes we know how great your rifle is, yes we know you have basically a hipster 6.5 creedmoor…… yes we all want one. Again it misses the mark for being too small bore for the machine gun roles needed later on.
I’m sure there’s others I missed. But that’s about all the time and energy I’ve got to stir the pot today. Looking forward to reading people defending their calibers and protesting MY opinion down below
I have come to the belief that the 7.65x53 Mauser cartridge is absolutely genius and far ahead of its time. It was the best first generation smokeless cartridge. Yet has become mostly forgotten about and that's an injustice in my eyes. So I will attempt today to shed some light and perhaps restore some old glory to this engineering marvel.
To prove my point I have to set a baseline and touch on the competition 7.65x53 had in its time of being a first generation smokeless cartridge.
Don your helmets and strap on your reflective belts, some favorite cartridge feelings are going to get hurt.
----------------------------------------
Our baseline is the 308 Winchester. Its development in the 1950s shows an apex of engineering. It takes all the lessons learned from the 1890s through WWII and and deposited them into possibly the most versatile cartridge of all time. Capable of filling many roles and doing a lot of things quite well, and being efficient while doing them too. From battle rifles to belt fed machine guns to sniper rifles to hunting rifles
-It is not too weak, not too powerful
-it is not too long, or short
-it doesn't have a rim
-it doesn't have excessive taper
-it has little wasted space
Now that I've managed to anger the .30-06 AND 6.5 Creedmoor crowds.... I can continue my thesis.
When the French developed the first smokeless cartridge in 1886, the rest of the world quickly began development of their own. Thing is...nobody knew what was going to work or what it should even look like. Nobody could have known how technology would change. They could not have predicted the evolution of bolt action, to autoloaders, to machine guns, aircraft and dogfighting. This led to most of the first generation smokeless cartridges being left behind to pursue more optimal cartridges for the changing tasks. Keep this in mind as we continue.
—————————————————
First up in 1886, the granddaddy of them all, France gave us the 8x50R Lebel. As much as I agree to respect elders...... This round is a complete turd. Its got strange bulges and curves like when we try on old high school clothes. Suboptimal bore diameter. A neck and shoulder arrangement so long it might fit in better with those ring neck ladies in Africa. Huge rim, lots of taper. Thank you for your service but I think even the French are glad its gone.
Same said above goes to the 8x50R Mannlicher. You are misshapen and gross and we don't miss you or your vaguely homosexual name.
Next up in 1888 the Germans gave us an early form of the 7.92x57 Mauser called the Patrone 88. Gotta give credit, they got a lot right on this one. Its Rimless! No excessive taper! Very little wasted space with that shoulder / neck arrangement. Problems being that the bore diameter would become sub optimal and the cartridge was just too long and overpowered for the battle rifle generation that came after WWII. Yes, guy with G43 rifle, we know it can be done but you cannot argue that a shorter and lesser powered round would have been a better idea for a rifle people carry.
In 1889 a bunch of gents in fuzzy hats gave us the 303 British. They got the bore diameter right, stepping down to a proper 30 cal. They even got the power level right due to the Lee Enfields handicapping rear locking lugs…….. but that taper….. and rim causing heartaches for box magazines will keep this decent cartridge from the title of best first generation smokeless cartridge.
Apparently keeping trend with shrinking the bore…. Italy gave us the 6.5 Carcano in 1890. Got the length and rim, and shape right but missed the mark with the diameter, and power levels. It’s smaller diameter and energy would prove sub optimal for machine gun use when a guy wants to stuff incindiary goodness into the back of the bullet.
1890 also gave us the early 7.5x55 Swiss called the GP90. A nearly perfect creation. You’re probably wondering why this didn’t take the number one spot. As much as I want this round to take the cake…. Technically it misses the mark for being underpowered. It’s initial offering was very weak due to it going inside of an inferior rear locking rifle. Still, the case design is impressive. It wasn’t until 1911 that the cartridge (and rifle) was updated to a round that is awfully similar to 308. But that would make it a second generation so we march forward.
1892 gave us the .30-40 Krag, or .30 Army. Swing and a miss, where to begin….. huge rim, tons of wasted space, a neck that is long enough to emulate a beer bottle… and again underpowered due to being mated with a weak action. This round and rifle proved to be so much a turd that the United States literally ripped off the Mauser rifle to catch up. I don’t blame them, because it eventually gave us the .30-06. Which gave birth to our dear .308. I hold no malice and choose to just ignore how badly the ordnance department missed the mark.
In 1890 after a vodka fueled spell of inspiration, Russia gave us the 7.62x54R. Let’s be honest here…. This grotesque cartridge should not have been in service as long as it has. It’s persistence is likely due to the Russians remarkable ability to put up with sub optimal crap…. literally forever. They got the diameter right but that’s about it. Slightly awkward and powerful for good auto loading rifles. And again… a rim large enough to enjoy thanksgiving on. Despite my disdain for its shape, it’s track record speaks for itself. And continues to serve honorably as machine gun and sniper rifle cartridge. Bravo, but still not the best first generational smokeless round.
Now that I’ve lost the teenage mosin crowd we can get to the featured cartridge of the thread.
We now return to the humble 7.65x53. Paul Mauser blessed the Belgians with this creation seemingly out of thin air in 1889! This guy… despite not knowing the future … got it perfect right out the gate, genius! It is the perfect form factor to fill all the roles we asked of full power rifle cartridges even today 130 years later. It did in 1889 what we had to come back to in the 50s with the 308. Look at how similar it is to the 308.
-It’s rimless, even uses 308 rim size
-30 caliber
-no excessive taper
-not excessively long
-little wasted space, size efficient
-same power levels as 308
Just look at that handsome neck and shoulder arrangement! It’s so beautiful it makes me want to cry.
In all seriousness I think it’s fall from popularity has nothing to do with its perfection but rather due to much larger political and economic reasons. After WWI, it seemed all eyes were on .30-06, and 8mm Mauser for the future of rifle cartridges. Belgium, Argentina, Chile, everyone else who had the 7.65 rifles just didn’t have the same level of pull and interest that Germany and the United States had.
By about now there is some weirdo wearing his Spanish helmet and glow belt with a rolling block 7x57 Mauser wondering why I forgot him. …..It doesn’t count because Paul made 7x57 3 years AFTER the 7.65 and it’s longer, too much neck / taper, and it’s the wrong diameter (despite me liking 7mm more than 7.62). You may leave now sir, good day.
Before you speak up ….guy with 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser…..yes we know how great your rifle is, yes we know you have basically a hipster 6.5 creedmoor…… yes we all want one. Again it misses the mark for being too small bore for the machine gun roles needed later on.
I’m sure there’s others I missed. But that’s about all the time and energy I’ve got to stir the pot today. Looking forward to reading people defending their calibers and protesting MY opinion down below
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