Government Permission Will Be Required to Travel

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  • henktermaat

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    Jan 3, 2009
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    From: Government Permission Will Be Required to Travel

    Starting this year, Americans will have to get government approval to travel by air. As Privacy Journal revealed last fall, henceforth “Permission Now Needed to Travel Within U.S.” Getting a reservation and checking-in for air travel will soon require Transportation Security Administration authorization. That permission is by no means assured: For example, if your name matches a “no-fly” list, even mistakenly, you can be denied the right to a reserve a seat on a flight. If your name is on a “selectee” list, you and your possessions will be searched more thoroughly before you can board. What is going on here?
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    All travelers will need government OK in order to board a flight, or take a cruise. What the government can allow one day, it can forbid the next.

    Protecting air safety is essential, but professional screening at airports already provides for it. Giving the TSA as an official agency the additional authority to decide who gets to go where reaches beyond safety into overextended governmental power. This newly minted “Secure Flight” rule fundamentally imbalances long-standing citizens’ rights both to travel and to be left alone. If your name appears among hundreds of thousands on “watchlists,” you assert that the government should not require ID to fly, you don’t want to reveal your date of birth for concern about identity theft, or you don’t choose to declare your gender, you can stay home.
    By combining the requirement for government photo IDs in order to fly with checking government watchlists including potentially every passenger, “Secure Flight” puts the federal government into the business of licensing travel. All travelers will need government OK in order to board a flight, or take a cruise. What the government can allow one day, it can forbid the next. All things considered, isn’t this a higher-tech and later-day version of South African domestic passports or eastern European checkpoints? In fact, because of the high technological capacity of the U.S. version, aren’t its implications for travel control of plane, train, bus and subway travel much more far reaching? It’s incredible that something like this is happening relatively unrecognized in America.


    While some people consider the requirement to show ID or reveal a birth date a small trade-off for security, what is at stake here is the right to travel. That fundamental freedom of movement appears in the Articles of Confederation in the right to freely enter and leave all the states of the then small union. It was so fundamentally a part of American citizenship that the privileges and immunities clauses of the Constitution included it without explicitly mentioning it again for the more perfect union. With a large and expansive nation now ranging from Hawaii and Alaska to Washington DC, that right to travel nationally, and petition the distant government, is even more fundamental. Yet some courts maintain that if you can walk, you don’t need the right to fly. People have the right to walk around freely without carrying a national ID; why do they have to show one to travel? The Supreme Court has yet to rule on the scope of the right to travel but lower courts have tended to restrict it more narrowly than the Founding Fathers would approve.

    Clearly, the air ID and “Secure Flight” rules mean you cannot travel any distance reachable only by air without official permission. Moreover, the system can easily be extended to Amtrak as a government railroad, which already requires government ID in order to purchase a ticket. It can further be extended to urban rapid-transit networks tied to travel cards, and private inter-city buses requiring IDs to buy tickets or board coaches. These are the bases for an internal passport system in the U.S.

    There are a lot of practical issues here too. The assumption that any “no-fly” list includes all potential wrong doers is implausible, and first time criminals would by definition not appear until it’s too late. Many people on these lists are there because their names are similar to those who are suspect for other reasons. There are perhaps a few hundred people whose past activities merit keeping them off the streets, let alone flights; the small group is better caught through search warrants and good police work before they come to the airport. To demand that 750 million annual passengers have to get government permissions to fly creates a needle in-a-haystack approach to locating a few potential wrongdoers (none so far have been caught by the matching). “Secure Flight” is simply an ineffective use of scarce resources that sweeps much too broadly over people’s most basic rights to travel and be let alone.

    What can you do? Like other regulations quickly promulgated at the end of an outgoing administration, these rules need to be delayed and reconstituted. Contact your Senators, Representatives and the White House to suspend such ill-considered regulations now. Insist that the government create a system that makes flying safe without granting federal officials the final say over permission for citizens to travel. Otherwise, the traveling public may be detoured onto a perilous downhill road to being permanently grounded.
     

    clt46910

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    Dec 4, 2008
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    While it is suppose to be for our safety, just how much safer would it be? Most of Europe and other countries have this. How much safer are they? I seem to remember the French giving up because a few people bombed their trains a few years back. Quess that did not work did it?
     

    SavageEagle

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    I'm sorry, but traveling is not a privledge that can be taken away. Just a drivers license is not a privledge.

    The Founders never thought someone would have to have a license to travel in a car. A car is a modern day horse. The founders never concieved that people should have to be licensed to ride a horse. That was just obsurd. If you got hurt riding a horse, learn to ride better. If you were driving a stagecoach drunk and you ran someone over, you were charged with homocide. If they didn't hang you or put you in prison for life, you could still ride a horse when you got out.

    So why should today be any different?

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the People."

    Sound familiar? It says we have rights not enumerated in the Constitution, but those rights are ours to be had. The right to travel by whatever means is one of those rights given to us by God. I've yet to read in the Bible or the Constitution where either restrict our right to travel or by what means.

    Show me proof otherwise.
     
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    Mar 17, 2009
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    Dyer
    What happens when the first person on the list commits an act of violence because he is on the list?

    Our government geniuses at work again!!
     

    eatsnopaste

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    Dec 23, 2008
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    South Bend
    What can you do? Like other regulations quickly promulgated at the end of an outgoing administration, these rules need to be delayed and reconstituted. Contact your Senators, Representatives and the White House to suspend such ill-considered regulations now. Insist that the government create a system that makes flying safe without granting federal officials the final say over permission for citizens to travel. Otherwise, the traveling public may be detoured onto a perilous downhill road to being permanently grounded.

    So this was started as a program at the end of the Bush administration? Who and what is "Privacy Journal?"
    SE "so why should today be any different?" crashing a stagecoach into a building wasn't catastrophic, blowing up a stagecoach would have only killed a handful of people (Lockerbie ring a bell) I didn't get that the government would be saying whether you could travel to...Texas, Florida...only that if you were deemed "dangerous" then you couldn't fly maybe like if you were deemed a child molester you can't live near a school. if you are an ex-con, you can't own a handgun, vote....if you are a wife beater or a person with alcohol or psychological problems we don't allow you to have a ltch...lots of ways the Gov. intrudes into our lives...not always directly liked to the end of our rights.
     

    SavageEagle

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    What can you do? Like other regulations quickly promulgated at the end of an outgoing administration, these rules need to be delayed and reconstituted. Contact your Senators, Representatives and the White House to suspend such ill-considered regulations now. Insist that the government create a system that makes flying safe without granting federal officials the final say over permission for citizens to travel. Otherwise, the traveling public may be detoured onto a perilous downhill road to being permanently grounded.

    So this was started as a program at the end of the Bush administration? Who and what is "Privacy Journal?"
    SE "so why should today be any different?" crashing a stagecoach into a building wasn't catastrophic, blowing up a stagecoach would have only killed a handful of people (Lockerbie ring a bell) I didn't get that the government would be saying whether you could travel to...Texas, Florida...only that if you were deemed "dangerous" then you couldn't fly maybe like if you were deemed a child molester you can't live near a school. if you are an ex-con, you can't own a handgun, vote....if you are a wife beater or a person with alcohol or psychological problems we don't allow you to have a ltch...lots of ways the Gov. intrudes into our lives...not always directly liked to the end of our rights.

    Why does a stagecoach being blown up and only killing a handful of people any less catastrophic than an airliner blowing up and killing hundreds? That's like saying bombing a town controlled by terrorists is ok as long as ONLY X amount of civilians are lost in the process.

    Who gets to choose who is deemed "dangerous"? Napolitino? obamatard? Judges? The CIA? Me? You? We already have standards to determine who those people are. Those standards were overridden when the Patriot Act passed and the Terror Watch List was created. It spiraled from there.

    That's not really the point though, is it? If the government, not the company, can restrict who can travel and by what means, how long before they say you can no longer drive a car on public roads because you have been deemed "dangerous" by, whomever?
     

    bigg cheese

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    Sadly, I'll probably never be able to afford to travel abroad.

    Luckily, traveling here and Canada, I prefer to drive and see the landscape :).

    All in all, I probably won't be affected :).
     

    SavageEagle

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    Sadly, I'll probably never be able to afford to travel abroad.

    Luckily, traveling here and Canada, I prefer to drive and see the landscape :).

    All in all, I probably won't be affected :).

    Just because you won't be affected doesn't mean you shouldn't fight against it... ;)
     

    dburkhead

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    "...Nor be deprived of Life, Liberty, or Property without due process of law."

    Is travel not "liberty"?

    And simply passing a law has never qualified as "due process."
     

    dburkhead

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    Just because you won't be affected doesn't mean you shouldn't fight against it... ;)

    "First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me." Pastor Martin Niemöller
     

    bigg cheese

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    "First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me." Pastor Martin Niemöller

    very true :)
     

    indykid

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    Westfield
    How bad is it? I have a very good friend that tried to fly out of Indy with his 7 year old son. Unfortunately his son was on the no fly list and the airline refused to let him on the airplane!!!!!! It took over a half hour to convince those idiots that his 7 year old son was not the person that was named.

    I am a pilot, I am a licensed aircraft mechanic, I love flying, but I hate airport security. They did fine after D.B.Cooper hijacked the first aircraft by instituting metal detectors. Granted the 911 murderers used easy to conceal weapons, but the current state of the Transportation lack of Security Admin is appauling.

    One of my best friends is a pilot for United Airlines. After 911 she was going through security to head to HER aircraft. She told me that they wouldn't let her bring her nail file onto the airplane!!! A four stripe captain! Her airplane! She told me she almost couldn't fly because she was laughing so hard. Did they really think she would use the nail file on herself when if she wanted to do something stupid, she had the ultimate tool available, the controls of the airplane!!!! She also thought it stupid to take her nail file since attached to the captain's seat is the largest pick-axe you can imagine, designed to cut through the fuselage of the airplane in the event of an emergency.

    Yep, TSA, over reaction to the max! Zig heil upon entering the terminal.
     

    4sarge

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    Mar 19, 2008
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    FREEDONIA
    How bad is it? I have a very good friend that tried to fly out of Indy with his 7 year old son. Unfortunately his son was on the no fly list and the airline refused to let him on the airplane!!!!!! It took over a half hour to convince those idiots that his 7 year old son was not the person that was named.

    I am a pilot, I am a licensed aircraft mechanic, I love flying, but I hate airport security. They did fine after D.B.Cooper hijacked the first aircraft by instituting metal detectors. Granted the 911 murderers used easy to conceal weapons, but the current state of the Transportation lack of Security Admin is appauling.

    One of my best friends is a pilot for United Airlines. After 911 she was going through security to head to HER aircraft. She told me that they wouldn't let her bring her nail file onto the airplane!!! A four stripe captain! Her airplane! She told me she almost couldn't fly because she was laughing so hard. Did they really think she would use the nail file on herself when if she wanted to do something stupid, she had the ultimate tool available, the controls of the airplane!!!! She also thought it stupid to take her nail file since attached to the captain's seat is the largest pick-axe you can imagine, designed to cut through the fuselage of the airplane in the event of an emergency.

    Yep, TSA, over reaction to the max! Zig heil upon entering the terminal.

    Great Post - repped :rockwoot:
     

    Rattlesnake46319

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    Sorry, I can't get worked up over this mainly because this is nothing new. Since TSA was formed, we've had a "no-fly" list. The addition of DOB and gender.....meh. I still have booger-eating morons with double-digit IQs and triple-digit incomes rooting around through my luggage.
     
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