Government confiscates old gold coins discovered in family lock box

[rambone]

A family discovered ten 1933 gold eagles in a family lock box. Citing FDR's gold confiscation order, the government says that by virtue of the stamp on the coins, they government automatically knows beyond reasonable doubt that the coins were stolen 79 years ago.



Family Battles U.S. Over 10 Coins Worth Millions

But in 2004, Joan Langbord, Mr. Switt’s daughter, and her sons contacted the United States Mint to say they had discovered the 10 coins tucked away in a safe deposit box, within a folded Wanamaker’s department store bag, and asked for help in authenticating them. Instead, the government seized the double eagles — an eagle was a $10 piece, a half eagle a $5 — saying that since they had never been circulated, they must have been stolen. The Langbords sued to get them back.

In 2009, Judge Legrome D. Davis of Federal District Court, said that the government could not simply assume the coins were government property, and would have the burden of proving the facts in court. While the government has the burden of proof, this is not a criminal case in which guilt must be established beyond a reasonable doubt. It must convince jurors only that a preponderance of the evidence supports its case.

In a tough pair of detailed orders issued just before trial, Judge Davis stated flatly that some of the evidence could allow jurors to infer that the coins were stolen and that the family knew it and concealed them. He noted somewhat acerbically in a footnote that the safe deposit box in which Ms. Langbord “claims to have discovered” the coins had been opened by her in 2002, “the day before the Fenton coin was sold at auction.”

Even if the jury decides in favor of the Langbords, Judge Davis could still declare the government the rightful owner. That possibility worries coin collectors, said Armen Vartian, a lawyer who filed briefs in the case on behalf of the Professional Numismatics Guild. “The government cannot just go around saying, ‘You have this. We think it’s ours. Give it back,’ ” he said. Having looked at the evidence against the Langbords, he said, “At best, it’s inconclusive,” and added, “You would think that the government has better things to do.”

 

[IndyDave1776]

Those worthless SOBs! They, of all people, should know about the lot of those coins released just as FDR cooked up the order calling in the gold. The 1933 gold coins mistakenly released are hyper-value collector's items and once returned the .gov will likely cash in on them as such. Now, we have a .gov theft covering a .gov f**kup from 79 years ago, and the feds know this!

 

[rambone]

And the family lost.

Feds seize gold coins worth $80 mln from Pennsylvania family

Because the government ordered the destruction of their entire supply of coins decades earlier, the court found that Switt’s family was illegally in possession of the stash. Even though they may had been presented to the dealer by a Philadelphia Mint staffer, Judge Davis agrees with last year’s ruling that Mr. McCann broke the law."The coins in question were not lawfully removed from the United States Mint,” the judge rules.

Despite this decision, though, the attorney representing Switt’s family says the government has no right to remove their own items and transfer property back to the state.

"This is a case that raises many novel legal questions, including the limits on the government's power to confiscate property."

 

[indiucky]

Wow.

 

[Stschil]

The original Thread:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...d_coins_from_family_say_they_were_stolen.html


The original article:

Family fights government over rare

The coins are part of a batch that were struck but then melted down after President Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933, during the Great Depression. Two were given to the Smithsonian Institution*, but a few more mysteriously escaped.

The government has long believed that Switt schemed with a corrupt cashier at the Mint to swipe the coins. They note that the deposit box in which the coins were found was rented six years after Switt's death, and that the family never paid inheritance tax on the coins.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It appears that their forefather was a thief.

 

[ViperJock]

"You're trying to take what I've rightfully stolen."
--the Cicilian
"The Princess Bride"

 

[rambone]

Takes a thief to know one.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Takes a thief to know one.

Touche

 

[IndyDave1776]

The existence of a batch of these coins has been known from the beginning. I recall reading articles about them when I went through my middle school infatuation with coins and it was presented as an example of mistiming or procedural error between the mint and the White House releasing a relatively small quantity of them before getting a grip on the new direction. Never any mention of theft. I have my doubts that after a cache of them being discovered it suddenly becomes theft making it so. One may notice that this executive does not take effect until May. That is four months to put out coin and presumably a window in which some could have been released prior to that. You may recall that to today's businesses anything beyond last quarter is ancient history, so why would we discount what may have been done in a quarter in 1933?

 

[Expat]

So many lives to ruin, so little time.

 

[Noland]

The government's main point seems to be that they had to be stolen since there was no record of them being shipped out.

So if there was no record of them being missing or stolen either, then the accuracy and thoroughness of their record keeping is too suspect to be relied upon, I would think. Obviously a jury thinks differently.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The government's main point seems to be that they had to be stolen since there was no record of them being shipped out.

So if there was no record of them being missing or stolen either, then the accuracy and thoroughness of their record keeping is too suspect to be relied upon, I would think. Obviously a jury thinks differently.

All it takes is a jury that believes that the .gov is always right and it is finished. I have seen far to many people that way to be surprised and by extension effectively put the burden of proof on the party who should be innocent until proven otherwise.

 

[rambone]

The government's main point seems to be that they had to be stolen since there was no record of them being shipped out.

The government didn't make any mistakes in those days, the records were kept perfectly, and nothing was ever misstamped or accidentally circulated. The only explanation is theft.

All it takes is a jury that believes that the .gov is always right and it is finished. I have seen far to many people that way to be surprised and by extension effectively put the burden of proof on the party who should be innocent until proven otherwise.

Did you read the part of the article about jury selection?

In the courtroom, jury selection took much of the first day. The process, as usual, was grindingly slow, but had its moments. Judge Davis, a large man with a sonorous voice who tips back so far in his chair that sometimes only his head is visible over the desk, asked a potential juror whether the fact that her husband collected coins would influence her. Did she share his hobby?

“I don’t collect coins,” she said. “I spend them.”

She was seated.
​

 

[9mmfan]

And the feds trample all over the citizenry once again. The founding fathers would be appalled at the size and power of our federal government. I think INGO needs to add a George Washington face palm to our choices. It would fit rather nicely here.

 

[mmills63]

It is a shame that the goverment does whatever whenever they want. It should be stopped but where do we start !!!!

 

[IndyDave1776]

It is a same that the goverment does whatever whenever they want. It should be stopped but where do we start !!!!

I don't know whether you are thinking politics or are a more 'hands-on' person, but do keep the following in mind:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...n/12952-posting_about_inciting_civil_war.html

 

[spencer rifle]

And the feds trample all over the citizenry once again. The founding fathers would be appalled at the size and power of our federal government. I think INGO needs to add a George Washington face palm to our choices. It would fit rather nicely here.

 

[mmills63]

I was speaking of politics and only wish this country was the way it used to be and a truly honest and moral society !!!!

 

[IndyDave1776]

I was speaking of politics and only wish this country was the way it used to be and a truly honest and moral society !!!!

In that case, perhaps building a wall around Washington and declaring it a national penitentiary would be an adequate solution?