Form 4473 question

[cook4army]

Hey, I've got an interesting question about the form 4473 that we all fill out when doing our background NCIS checks.

I recently picked up this sweet Remington 700 tactical in .308, and while I was waiting to hand the clerk my payment, I noticed that he had put all the pertinent information about my purchase on page 3 of the form and am curious...is this for their records to show proof of transfering the weapon in question from their inventory? I can understand if the information is needed to show proof of purchase of said firearm to clear it off of the firearms dealers inventory sheet, but couldnt this information be used by Unkie Sam, and all the political gun grabbers to create an ad-hoc registration system?

Are there rules in place that prevent BATFE agents from confiscating, copying, or obtaining these forms to create such a illegal list so that they can match a particulare gun to a particular owner? And to further this question, is the information that they put on this 4473, the reason the gun-grabbers want to stop all gun show and private sales of firearms, because they know without a 4473, they cant track where these firearms are?

Just curious. If anyone has any information about this, please let me know the real reason this information is on my 4473.

 

[Manatee]

Don't overthink it. It's a record of the transaction. It is maintained by the FFL until he goes out of business, then it is transferred to the National Tracing Center.

 

[canav844]

Are there rules in place that prevent BATFE agents from confiscating, copying, or obtaining these forms to create such a illegal list so that they can match a particulare gun to a particular owner?

The purpose of the form is so BAFTE can walk in at any point and find out all the particulars of any purchase made from an FFL. Because it's a condition of a federal firearms license a warrant isn't necessary, same as you having to submit to a breath test as a condition of your drivers license

They can't legally make a registration yet, but they can incrementally collect more and more information so when they want to make a registration list (my bet is they won't call it a registration, but label it an ATF firearms database and equate it to car registration databases at the DMV) it's not hard work. And then once they make it so new ones aren't available (Fienstiens goal is to "dry up the supply"), then can then incrementally move to going about and collecting them.

Some will say it's talk. Some will say it's incrementalism. Some will say it'll save one life, some say it's an infringement on a right.

 

[jwh20]

In THEORY, yes, this could be done. There is a "paper trail" for all LEGALLY transferred firearms via FFLs.

In PRACTICE, however, this would be a MONUMENTAL task. It would take obtaining ALL 4473 forms from every FFL everywhere and entering all that data into databases. There are also the millions-upon-millions of 4473 forms that have been sent to the government by FFLs who have gone out of the FFL business.

This project would take YEARS to accomplish but it could be done if there was enough "political" pressure behind it. I'm sure that were such an effort started, we'd hear about it loud and clear from FFLs here and elsewhere.

 

[kludge]

I guess it depends how thick your tinfoil is.

Could it be used? Yes. Is it used? Only the ATF could tell you. By law the ATF has to destroy the records of the call when they give the proceed with in 24 hours I think, but maybe it's 30 days. When a FFL goes out of business all the forms are forwarded to the ATF by law.

When a crime gun is found, they can request a trace. The ATF goes to the mfg, who tells them which distributor, who tells them which FFL, who can then pull the file to see who it was sold to. If the original owner no longer has it, or doesn't know who (s)he sold it to, or it was stolen, then the trail goes cold. Supposedly.

The real reason? Inquiring minds want to know. A way to prosecute FFL's for not following the rules? That's about the only REAL cases I've seen much of. Without universal background check, and universal registration, that's about all they've got. Maybe that and "gun running" (straw buyers).

 

[cook4army]

Ok, so the feasibility is there, it would just take alot of work to do it. I was just curious, as I was under the impression that no actual information about the firearm purchased was put on the form, and much to my surprise, it was.

Thanks for the update.

 

[Manatee]

No information about the purchase (other than type of firearm) is requested by the agent in a NICS check. The FBI doesn't know if you bought an AK or a Cricket, for example.

 

[WebSnyper]

Ok, so the feasibility is there, it would just take alot of work to do it. I was just curious, as I was under the impression that no actual information about the firearm purchased was put on the form, and much to my surprise, it was.

Thanks for the update.

No information about the purchase (other than type of firearm) is requested by the agent in a NICS check. The FBI doesn't know if you bought an AK or a Cricket, for example.

It is on the form, but as Manatee states it is not provided during the call. Only handgun or longgun is identified during the call. No serial numbers, etc are provided during the call.

 

[LarryC]

In THEORY, yes, this could be done. There is a "paper trail" for all LEGALLY transferred firearms via FFLs.

In PRACTICE, however, this would be a MONUMENTAL task. It would take obtaining ALL 4473 forms from every FFL everywhere and entering all that data into databases. There are also the millions-upon-millions of 4473 forms that have been sent to the government by FFLs who have gone out of the FFL business.

This project would take YEARS to accomplish but it could be done if there was enough "political" pressure behind it. I'm sure that were such an effort started, we'd hear about it loud and clear from FFLs here and elsewhere.

I somewhat agree -

But the seeming enormous task is becoming easier everyday. Today there are scanning programs that can "convert" and store written information to digital very quickly. Voice recognition is also available.

Granted it would take a great number of workers to feed the scanners, but also a lot of the information is on computers at GS's now! Besides when does the "cost" concern the idiots at Washington?

This is the main reason I am 100% against the "Universal Background" check - and why the Liberals are for the measure!! If this is implemented and all legal, honest citizens comply, they would only have to accumulate the information for the next 30 years to "register" and track 95% of all guns held by "legal citizens" - ripe for confiscation. then only the Criminals, Police, Government and Military would have guns!

Yes I read and heed HISTORY!