Failure to appear/comply

[Peacekeeper3073]

Apparently the thing to do now if you get a subpoena or court order is just ignore it. During my career it wasn't even considered to ignore a summons or subpoena and if you did you could expect a call from the admin requesting your presence in their office! I really think we are setting a bad precedent with this. What do you guys think, would especially like to hear from past and current LEO's.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Apparently the thing to do now if you get a subpoena or court order is just ignore it. During my career it wasn't even considered to ignore a summons or subpoena and if you did you could expect a call from the admin requesting your presence in their office! I really think we are setting a bad precedent with this. What do you guys think, would especially like to hear from past and current LEO's.

Need more info before I can provide my expert and valued opinion. Who is ignoring the summons/subpoena?

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

Need more info before I can provide my expert and valued opinion. Why is ignoring the summons/subpoena?

I left it general to avoid it getting into a political thread. But since you asked let's start with all the people who have refused (politician and non-politicians) to appear before congress after subpoenaed, and now ignoring the New York Attorney General subpoenas. And I will repeat my opinion, we are setting a bad precedent here for future issues.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I left it general to avoid it getting into a political thread. But since you asked let's start with all the people who have refused (politician and non-politicians) to appear before congress after subpoenaed, and now ignoring the New York Attorney General subpoenas. And I will repeat my opinion, we are setting a bad precedent here for future issues.

Yeah, used to be a subpoena meant something and there were consequences for not responding to them.

 

[Ingomike]

Yeah, used to be a subpoena meant something and there were consequences for not responding to them.

What? See my shocked face. A group of people (so as not to make it political) have spent years denigrating the rule of law. The idea that we are a country of laws not of men is dying. And here we are…

 

[spencer rifle]

Just here to say subpoenas are racist...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Context matters. Does the subpoena create an undue hardship and what is the underlying government interest? If you subpoena me to testify because I witnessed a parking violation and it's in the middle of an overseas vacation, I'll let you know I'm not available and I'll ignore your subpoena if you don't accomodate me. I'll eat the penalty, whatever it is. There's also the incidents of some local judge thinking he can subpoena the POTUS or the like.

That said, I think the default is to honor a subpoena absent some unusual circumstance. However, we're all adults and we all make our own choices. Like my hypothetical above, if you're willing to accept the consequences then do as you will.

 

[Denny347]

Yeah, I love the subpoena in the middle of my vacation. Yup, NOT going to be there. I have not seen a punishment for someone ignoring a subpoena in criminal court. They just usually dismiss the case.

 

[snapping turtle]

On the non law enforcement side. Even if subpoena‘Ed I can just plead the fifth. Show up and shut up.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I was subpoenaed in Marion County about four years ago. I showed up when I was supposed to, and the people from the prosecutors office seemed shocked that I was there.

 

[HoughMade]

I left it general to avoid it getting into a political thread. But since you asked let's start with all the people who have refused (politician and non-politicians) to appear before congress after subpoenaed, and now ignoring the New York Attorney General subpoenas. And I will repeat my opinion, we are setting a bad precedent here for future issues.

We lawyers engage in discovery disputes regularly. Just because the other side asks for it, doesn't mean they get it. I'm a fan of complying with court orders, but there are generally more than a couple of steps between subpoena and court order. In certain situations, I have been known to say....and practice the saying that: "We're not going to answer that unless a judge says we have to."

Outside of a political context, this is pretty standard, but pearl clutching is a political strategy these days...and both sides do it.

Personal opinion, just about every time I hear someone say something about "a threat to the rule of law" or "a threat to our democracy"...I roll my eyes because someone is being dramatic for political purposes.

 

[Ingomike]

just about every time I hear someone say something about "a threat to the rule of law" or "a threat to our democracy"...I roll my eyes because someone is being dramatic for political purposes.

So you are saying we follow the “rule of law“ as well or better than we did in the past in this country?

 

[HoughMade]

So you are saying we follow the “rule of law“ as well or better than we did in the past in this country?

I think that when politicians get all exercised about "existential" threats, they are being dramatic.

The most recent example of the January 6 stuff. To hear the leftists tell it, we were on the edge of a white supremacist coup. They go on and on about the threat to democracy, etc., etc., etc. I'm pretty sure that they actually believe what I believe- in the midst of a rally/protest, a very few knuckleheads rioted and did some supremely stupid things....and there was no real insurrection.

However, they get all choked up about the threat to our country- why? Because there are panicky people who will believe them and they can use it to paint their political opponents in a bad light.

However, this is just the latest example. The truth is, riots and protests and violence have always been used by what whatever side could use them for political gain.

 

[Ingomike]

I think that when politicians get all exercised about "existential" threats, they are being dramatic.

The most recent example of the January 6 stuff. To hear the leftists tell it, we were on the edge of a white supremacist coup. They go on and on about the threat to democracy, etc., etc., etc. I'm pretty sure that they actually believe what I believe- in the midst of a rally/protest, a very few knuckleheads rioted and did some supremely stupid things....and there was no real insurrection.

However, they get all choked up about the threat to our country- why? Because there are panicky people who will believe them and they can use it to paint their political opponents in a bad light.

However, this is just the latest example. The truth is, riots and protests and violence have always been used by what whatever side could use them for political gain.

Not understanding the answer to this question: So you are saying we follow the “rule of law“ as well or better than we did in the past in this country? Not sure what riots have to do with rule of law.

To me we do not and our institutions are failing us, just one quick example.

Take all the election laws and regulations that were changed by entities other than the legislature as dictated by the constitution that got no serious considerations from any of the courts. Some decision should have been rendered to follow our laws.

 

[hoosierdoc]

If you're talking Congressional subpoenas of Executive branch officials, i believe separation of powers plays a role

 

[HoughMade]

If you're talking Congressional subpoenas of Executive branch officials, i believe separation of powers plays a role

That is one situation where one would object to the subpoena and eventually fight it out before a judge. There are countless others.

 

[jsx1043]

The best way to avoid subpoenas (on the LE side) is just to be so good at Probable Causes and report writing that you don’t have depositions or create room for the defense to wiggle.

 

[jbombelli]

I don't ignore my subpoenas; I use them to light my cigars and as coasters for my beer.

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

The best way to avoid subpoenas (on the LE side) is just to be so good at Probable Causes and report writing that you don’t have depositions or create room for the defense to wiggle.

View attachment 174446

Except in my county. I’ve seen every officer that was working get a subpoena whether they were involved with a case or not. Some were never on the scene !

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Except in my county. I’ve seen every officer that was working get a subpoena whether they were involved with a case or not. Some were never on the scene !

Private attorney looking for billable hours, maybe?

I've been subpoena'd to say I *wasn't at the scene* because my unit number was mistakenly put in the CAD due to a typo and then immediately corrected. It was a DUI, of all things, and a private attorney who knew before I got there that I wasn't related to the case in any fashion. AND STILL ASKED ME 3 MINUTES WORTH OF QUESTIONS....

I will say this particular attorney, who I will not name, appeared to me to be in the late stages of detox themselves and confused AF about what we were all there to do...