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i actually had this happen once. luckily this person was at home with a family member. we had the family member remove it from his person before we would begin treatment and a sheriffs deputy was able to oversee the proper securing of the firearm.
I think the OP is asking (which I would also like to know) is how they go about removing it from you. How many EMTs know how to safely handle a firearm? Seems like that would be good training for them to have. LEOs aren't typically present for a medical emergency.
Another good question is how they can legally hold/transport it to the proper people/authorities without having a LTCH.
My wife is a EMT with the local metro emergency services. The SOP for them would be if they were called to a scene that police were not dispatched to and the patient was carrying a firearm, they would call the local LEO for the disposition of the firearm.
INGunGuy
INGunGuy
Almost 7 years ago I was involved in a head on accident while I was carrying in Greenwood. I wasn't all that messed up, but did require an ambulance ride to the hospital. A couple of Greenwood LEO's where the first to arrive, and I notified one of the officers that I was injured and that I had my firearm on me. He said he would hang on to it for me, so I took the gun(and holster) off of my hip and gave it to him. He gave me his business card and told me to call him when I got home and he'd bring it over to my house. When I got home later that afternoon, I called him, and had it back a half hour later! IMHO, that is exactly how it should be done. +1 for the Greenwood, IN police department!
I hope if I am having a heart attack the EMTs don't sit around waiting for LEOs to show up and take my gun before getting me to the ER. If thats the case, I might as well not carry seeing my odds of a heart attack are much greater than needing to use a gun in self defense.
I asked my wife if she were at a scene, no LEO, patient having heart attack, what would they do. She stated they would start to work on the patient, then wait for LEO to take possession of the firearm before transporting the patient to the hospital. I asked if no LEO were available to come to the scene, which would be a VERY rare occurrence, what would they do, she stated they would transport based on the severity of the patients status, and turn the firearm over the LEO at the hospital.
INGunGuy
Paramedic for 15 years...several incidents with firearms...cops at scene its their responsibility. No LEO at scene, cleared and secured weapon in onboard locked storage and notified LEO en route. No scene delays waiting on them to get on scene...to much precious time lost waiting. You would be surprised how many EMS/ First responders are gun nuts! Never had a lack of anyone knowing how to properly secure a weapon.
I've not had this happen to me at work [EMT with Tippecanoe Co. Emergency Ambulance Service] yet with a civilian but have had some incidents with officers getting into car accidents and whatnot. I can tell you how I would react, even though I don't really know of any SOP for matter.
If police are on scene I would have them secure the firearm until it can be returned to the owner.
If it was a critical patient and law enforcement was not on scene I would request to safe the weapon myself and ask dispatch to have LEO meet us at the hospital to secure the firearm.
I would request that the firearm be stored inside our locked narcotics box for the transport to the hospital for the safety of the crew and the patient if it was going to remain inside the ambulance.
Only for a few situations would Law Enforcement not be on scene in our area where we would not be able to wait on them to show up. We get good LEO turn out for cardiac arrests, unconscious patients, etc especially in our known trouble areas/neighborhoods.
Obviously, matters are complicated if the patient is not willing to relinquish the firearm. I think you would have to take this on a case by case basis, but if the owner is legally carrying then hopefully they would consider their medical condition more important then hanging onto their firearm.
If police are on scene I would have them secure the firearm until it can be returned to the owner.
If it was a critical patient and law enforcement was not on scene I would request to safe the weapon myself and ask dispatch to have LEO meet us at the hospital to secure the firearm.
I would request that the firearm be stored inside our locked narcotics box for the transport to the hospital for the safety of the crew and the patient if it was going to remain inside the ambulance.
Only for a few situations would Law Enforcement not be on scene in our area where we would not be able to wait on them to show up. We get good LEO turn out for cardiac arrests, unconscious patients, etc especially in our known trouble areas/neighborhoods.
Obviously, matters are complicated if the patient is not willing to relinquish the firearm. I think you would have to take this on a case by case basis, but if the owner is legally carrying then hopefully they would consider their medical condition more important then hanging onto their firearm.
Well in the area I'm from quite a few EMT's know how to safely handle a gun, most of the EMT's I've met where very competent professionals and know not to take a gun off of someone and start waving it around with their finger on the trigger.
As far as transporting, I doubt that you could find one LEO that's would arrest a EMT for securing a gun until a family member or LEO could take it.
Was your accident on Main st? If so I might have been there. Of the scenes I have been on where a firearm has been involved there has always been LEO. Normally LEO is not far away if needed, so by time we get the assesment done they could be there to secure it for us. Most of the time there is a MVA the local p.d. is already on scene.
Greatestsin
Sharpshooter
I agree that some cops won't give you a hard time about having to secure it in a locked compartment in the ambulance in case of life, limb, or sight emergency that requires a load and go mentality, but keep in mind there will possibly be jerks in the police department as there is in all walks of life. Use your best judgement, and hell, if its a severe enough situation that you just load straight into the rig with a quick trauma assessment you might not catch it until you do a thorough secondary exam. Giving it over right away might not always be an option. Now i'm going to talk to my boss about possibly hosting a firearm safety class...
shibumiseeker
Grandmaster
I had it happen several times. Most times LE was on scene so I handed it over to them. Once I transported it to the ED and once we finished turning the patient over to the staff I turned the gun over to security and made sure I noted which security officer I gave the gun to and noted it on my run sheet and then told the nurse working the patient. I did NOT want to be accused of theft.
The accident was on the Smith Valley bypass where it turns into Emerson Ave. It was a snowy morning and a lady pulled out of the apartment on the west side of the road, crossed over both south bound lanes, and turned south into my northbound lane.
I have found a few EMTs/medics who don't know firearm safety, but not many! Much of my reaction would depend on the patient; If s/he's alert and oriented and not p####d off, I'd not have a problem with it staying right where it is, if the patient is emergent, although I might request that they lock it up before we leave if they are at home and the patient is non-emergent, more because otherwise, the ER staff is going to 
freak ape-poop when they find it and hospital security will come take it from them than anything else. If the patient is not oriented or is upset, I don't care if they are in extremis.. the first rule is to protect your own safety.
There is nothing in the world more useless than a dead EMT/medic.
I'll withdraw until they're unconscious or disarmed if it's necessary for my safety. I don't get paid enough to be shot doing my job. Once they're unconscious, I'd be willing to remove the firearm, lock it in the narc cabinet, and transport, provided no LEOs are on scene. They can get the gun from me at the hospital and the patient (or survivors) can get it from the LEOs later.
My run report would CLEARLY document where it was found, how it was removed, how it was transported, and to whom it was delivered. I'd also get a cell phone photo of the gun with serial # and a signed receipt from the officer who took possession. (or note that it was not transported by us and where it was left prior to transport.)
Blessings,
Bill
freak ape-poop when they find it and hospital security will come take it from them than anything else. If the patient is not oriented or is upset, I don't care if they are in extremis.. the first rule is to protect your own safety.There is nothing in the world more useless than a dead EMT/medic.
I'll withdraw until they're unconscious or disarmed if it's necessary for my safety. I don't get paid enough to be shot doing my job. Once they're unconscious, I'd be willing to remove the firearm, lock it in the narc cabinet, and transport, provided no LEOs are on scene. They can get the gun from me at the hospital and the patient (or survivors) can get it from the LEOs later.
My run report would CLEARLY document where it was found, how it was removed, how it was transported, and to whom it was delivered. I'd also get a cell phone photo of the gun with serial # and a signed receipt from the officer who took possession. (or note that it was not transported by us and where it was left prior to transport.)
Blessings,
Bill
Bill of Rights is right on. IMPD with take the gun on scene and put it into the IMPD property room after investigation done. If it makes it to hospital the security will call the off duty cop that works there to take it and secure it, it will end up in the property room in that case also. I have seen some EMTs back off when they find a gun due to it being a bad guy, and others have the gun taken off the guys hip and locked up in the there bus when I got there. Most the guns I have seen have been bad guys guns. Keep in mind when it comes to a persons property a gun is just like money, ring or wallet they are more worried about civil suits in someone getting hurt or item lost or damaged. EMT's are wise and safe and when I say safe they run into more illegal guns than good guy guns and play it safe with it every time a case by case issue 95% will do all to save a life good or bad.
Thanks, Jar_Head. I don't work in Indy, but if I did, considering the hassle IMPD reportedly gives law-abiding, peaceable gun owners, I might modify my practice. I would likely counsel ALL persons found armed at home and
not known to be in violation of any laws to leave the gun there..
The last I heard, IMPD was not only keeping firearms for months, even in absence of a case regarding that owner or gun, but they were also requiring that the person submit his/her fingerprints to get it back... something gun owners in Indiana don't even have to do to buy the gun in the first place.
If this practice has changed since that report, I welcome the correction, but I suspect that all I'll hear will be the crickets chirping.
Again, thanks for the backup. Semper Fi.
Blessings,
Bill
