Does the military truly defend our freedoms?

[Kagnew]

Once again, based on my various experiences with the military and public safety, it sounds like you're calling what is obviously a "security" issue, a "freedom" issue. There certainly is a difference between the two. Your employer and the federal government certainly have a legitimate interest in preventing, as far as possible, the unauthorized transmission of data through an electronic communication device. I'll bet they won't let you bring a flash drive in, either. Neither one directly impinges upon your freedom.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I think that sort of thing is covered in DoDISPR 5200.1-R and AR 380-5 (if applicable). "See Something Say Something" refers to blowing the whistle on fraud, waste and abuse. What does it have to do with your freedom?

In the interests of honesty here, "See Something, Say Something" is also being used as a tool for reporting suspicious behavior. I've seen it advertised at Indianapolis International, for instance. And, in its place, it is a legitimate way to encourage people to report suspicious behavior under circumstances which might mean a security breach or terrorist action is being attempted (seeing an unbadged individual going through an "authorized entry only" door at an airport is a security breach).

Where ATO is getting exercised, I think, is the idea of having "informers" in every neighborhood tattling on their neighbors to Big Sis, which - fortunately - isn't happening just yet.

Now the TSA itself . . . that is definitely an organization substituting specious "security" for our freedom from unreasonable search.

 

[bushcf]

Take the fight to them, or they'll bring the fight to you.

 

[rambone]

Where ATO is getting exercised, I think, is the idea of having "informers" in every neighborhood tattling on their neighbors to Big Sis, which - fortunately - isn't happening just yet.

 

[powerstrokin]

^I don't disagree with this.

But without our military, or with a military that is far less capable, the fact is that we would be far more vulnerable to external threats.

But the reason we would even have an external threat (in my opinion) is because we've been the aggressor for so long. If we actually stood down and another country or group who we've been "liberating" came and gave us hell, I honestly wouldn't blame them. We'd have it coming.

We need a .gov that will publicly loudly and proudly say "we won't go behind your back and meddle in your business" and actually follow through with it instead of what always happens- they say they won't do things, but do them anyways.

Our .gov is a bunch of hypocritical monsters and the people we are torturing over seas damn well know it.

The military (as a whole) does defend freedom- freedom of the .gov to do whatever they want to whoever they want. Wherever, whenever, and with no accountability.

The military (individually) does mostly CARE about the people- but if it came down to it generally "orders are orders" and will be followed.

Sorry to be a Debby Downer.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

The military (individually) does mostly CARE about the people- but if it came down to it generally "orders are orders" and will be followed.

Sorry to be a Debby Downer.

NP, most AF guys i know have opinions like that.

 

[powerstrokin]

NP, most AF guys i know have opinions like that.

What?

 

[badwolf.usmc]

What?

You're info says you are in the AF. Is that wrong?

 

[powerstrokin]

You're info says you are in the AF. Is that wrong?

That's accurate information I just don't understand what you were trying to say.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

That's accurate information I just don't understand what you were trying to say.

Oh, you know what i'm saying. You have the same opinions of most AF guys i know.

 

[powerstrokin]

Oh, you know what i'm saying. You have the same opinions of most AF guys i know.

What opinion are you talking about?

That we really have no power and are at the mercy of our leadership and will basically follow orders anyways?

If that's the opinion you're referring to, then you are insinuating the other branches (or at least the USMC) does not have this opinion and that they have the power to actually make big decisions. If that's the case, I'm going to raise the BS flag, good Sir.

Maybe I'm way off base. Why don't you just come out and say what you mean instead of playing the "politically correct" game? This is why people think I'M an A-hole- I say what I mean and don't hide behind being PC.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

What opinion are you talking about?

That we really have no power and are at the mercy of our leadership and will basically follow orders anyways?

If that's the opinion you're referring to, then you are insinuating the other branches (or at least the USMC) does not have this opinion and that they have the power to actually make big decisions. If that's the case, I'm going to raise the BS flag, good Sir.

Maybe I'm way off base. Why don't you just come out and say what you mean instead of playing the "politically correct" game? This is why people think I'M an A-hole- I say what I mean and don't hide behind being PC.

I'm mostly just ****ing with ya, I was bored and you looked to be an easy target.

But on a more serious note, Yes we, USMC, are taught to follow orders, but we are also taught ethics and to not just blindly follow orders. If you think an order is illegal or immoral then you are not to follow it, and to report that infraction up the chain of command. But if you're wrong in your refusal, then it's your ass. A fine line to dance at times.

 

[jeremy]

I'm mostly just ****ing with ya, I was bored and you looked to be an easy target.

But on a more serious note, Yes we, USMC, are taught to follow orders, but we are also taught ethics and to not just blindly follow orders. If you think an order is illegal or immoral then you are not to follow it, and to report that infraction up the chain of command. But if you're wrong in your refusal, then it's your ass. A fine line to dance at times.

The Army is taught the same...

 

[Kagnew]

The Army is taught the same...

So are the Air Force, the Navy and the Coast Guard. Unfortunately, there are self-confessed a..-holes (see above) in all branches. That was one of the origins of the term "frag".

 

[powerstrokin]

AF is taught the same stuff broskis... just clarifying.

We can all agree, I'm sure, that there could be many situations where the illegal order is comprised of a lot of smaller legal orders leading up to something that should never have happened.

They've been running the game for a long damn time now and they know how to pull stuff off and get away with it.

 

[Trooper]

I would say that freedom is protected by the militia (i.e., the sum total of armed citizens) and not the army or any other .gov organization. There is a reason why the Consitution provided for maintaining a Navy but not a standing army. In the end, there are times in which military intervention are necessary, but there are two reasons we have our present situation. First is becoming involved in situation in which we should not. Second is not finishing old business before deciding we have had enough and leave a viable enemy with a serious case of the red***. The solution is to engage only in fights for which we really do have a good reason and second, to finish them once we start them rather than going soft and running away leaving a far more dangerous enemy behind than what we had in the first place.

The militia would work if you could mandate that every males was "well regulated" thus a trained warrior. We are to be a nation of warriors. Instead too many young men are metrosexual (emasculated).

There is a case to be made that the we only need the Navy and Marines. Merge the Air Force into the Navy, the Army into the Marines. Then move all support jobs from the Marines into the Navy so that the only people left in the Marines would be trigger pullers. Navy could provide admin, supply, maintenance (to include aircraft), commo like they now do Corpsmen and Chaplains.

Let the Guard retain its "Army" status but merely be a military police corps with a job to support local police unless needed for times of war.

 

[jeremy]

We can all agree, I'm sure, that there could be many situations where the illegal order is comprised of a lot of smaller legal orders leading up to something that should never have happened.

NCOs and Officers are the buffer to filter out the BS...
That is one of the reasons for the Positions...

They've been running the game for a long damn time now and they know how to pull stuff off and get away with it.

Only when you let them...

 

[jeremy]

There is a case to be made that the we only need the Navy and Marines. Merge the Air Force into the Navy, the Army into the Marines. Then move all support jobs from the Marines into the Navy so that the only people left in the Marines would be trigger pullers. Navy could provide admin, supply, maintenance (to include aircraft), commo like they now do Corpsmen and Chaplains.

Let the Guard retain its "Army" status but merely be a military police corps with a job to support local police unless needed for times of war.

Nice thought, has never worked when it has been attempted...

 

[badwolf.usmc]

AF is taught the same stuff broskis... just clarifying.

We can all agree, I'm sure, that there could be many situations where the illegal order is comprised of a lot of smaller legal orders leading up to something that should never have happened.

They've been running the game for a long damn time now and they know how to pull stuff off and get away with it.

I figure you were, I'm just wondering why you think everyone would just abandon their training?

Each level of the chain of command are there to supervise the rung below them, and at the top are the generals. Generals get promoted by congress, not the president. So, while generals must follow the orders of the President, they are political animals who are beholden to congress for their careers.

While illegal stuff does go on inside the military, just like in the civilian world, the type of thing you are talking about would require a powerful group of politicians. The only check for that is the American people.


Sure, i guess an illegal order that is comprised of a lot of smaller legal orders could happen, but then aliens could invade the US as well. Anything could happen.

 

[wizard_of_ahs]

, wrong thread.