Discussion: left hand draw from IWB right hand holster >injury scenario<

[mettle]

I was at the range today and got to working with some drills. I tossed this at Repair this morning first hand as well.

Scenario: you are right handed (strong hand) you always carry w/ a centerline IWB holster for your AUTO-pistol.

For some reason, your strong hand is injured, inoperable; so, you MUST draw and shoot with weak hand only.

1. Do you take 1 step back with weak hand leg in order to facilitate the draw from the IWB (right handed IWB holster pretty much at belly button)?

2. Do you stand straight on (cowboy style) while back peddling?

Issues, alerts to think about:

With the unusual grip and pull you could discharge the weapon.

My thoughts, what I gathered from the walk throughs.

1. You can only grab the bottom of the grip and 'swing' the pistol around and work your hand to the proper grip. This takes time.

2. It would be a hard decision of how to defend the strong side as the arm is useless... do you attempt to ward off the attack and then draw?

3. You absolutely must have a belt on to rack the slide consistently.

4. Your body can be used to apply pressure to 'hold' the pistol while proper grip is achieved to enable a decent shot. If you have not pre-drilled the scenario that is. I would not recommend it under a stress situation for obvious reasons.

5. Time is of the essence! Time is of the essence!

Try and do it 'with speed'. I fumbled, I dropped (unloaded pistol of course) the pistol, I had troubles working the grip for a simulated shot.

Tell me your thoughts; have you tried or drilled this? After working it today, I feel it is imperative to practice and nail down an action as it is a difficult maneuver.

 

[redneckmedic]

Good thread!!! Practice Practice Practice............or

 

[rhino]

Scenario: you are right handed (strong hand) you always carry w/ a centerline IWB holster for your AUTO-pistol.

For some reason, your strong hand is injured, inoperable; so, you MUST draw and shoot with weak hand only.

1. There are a variety of ways to access a strong side holster with the support hand. Some of them are less safe than others.
2. None of them are "fast," and trying to do them "fast" especially when you are learning is a recipe for disaster.
3. In my opinion, this is a skill that is best learned in person from a competent instructor. There is too much at stake and it's too easy to make an error for me to be inclined to describe it in words on a computer forum.
4. The only expedient way to handle this situation is to have another gun readily available to your support hand. This is yet another excellent reason to carry more than one gun.
5. Some people will never, ever be able to access a strong side holster with their support hand (I am one of them). These are people who need to carry (at least) a second gun that is readily accessible to their support hand if they choose to carry their primary weapon strong side.
6. Other methods of carry (such as appendix position) are more amenable to support hand access specifically because it's easier to reach.

 

[mettle]

I understand. I worked through this, critiquing and backpeddling as I tried to determine the best method and course of action. The pistol was not loaded, so it was a dry run.
I have determined that I am a centerline strong side guy. It allows me to do the many things required of me throughout my day. Interacting with kids, picking up baby, work, study, running, mowing etc.

Plus watching and learning the research that the Dogbrothers present, I just feel that I want to work from the IWB front for personal defense. I also feel that it is a very fast draw for me as well.

 

[mettle]

I really thought I would get more response than this... surprising. Rhino, do you and ObiJohn address anything in this discussion in the def. pistol 201?

After working with it today, and not having anyone there to address other angles I feel that it would be awesome to have actual imput from someone who has worked through this and feels it is a necessary and practical issue to resolve.

 

[Bubbajms]

Hmmm, well, I've been at work, so I'm just seeing this myself..

I know that all of my duty holsters will allow for offhand draw, but it's not real comfortable, and certainly not fast.

I agree with the idea of having multiple firearms, but it's not the end-all solution. There are many options that can be explored. This would be a great topic for discussion at a shooting school for sure!!

 

[bwframe]

I really thought I would get more response than this... surprising. We have a lot of gun owners on this forum; but, we must not have a lot of actual shooters...

Never heard that before.

Not directly related to your OP, but I am amazed at how handy the blue gun has been for home drills such as this.

You've got me thinking and working on this weak hand strong side draw thing. I've decided I can draw from front or back, neither of which can it be done with an initially good shooting grip. It also stretches the daylights out of some muscles that normally don't get stretched. More work is necessary.

Great thread.

 

[mettle]

Never heard that before.

Not directly related to your OP, but I am amazed at how handy the blue gun has been for home drills such as this.

You've got me thinking and working on this weak hand strong side draw thing. I've decided I can draw from front or back, neither of which can it be done with an initially good shooting grip. It also stretches the daylights out of some muscles that normally don't get stretched. More work is necessary.

Great thread.

I've got a sore shoulder today as well from contorting to try different approaches to making it work... and I'm 32!!

It is something to think about. I've never really seen a strong solution; perhaps ACT can give us a heads up this Dec.

 

[bigcraig]

I am like rhino, there is no way for me to access my holstered gun with my "weakhand".

Two guns is the best solution, if that is not possible, then have some quick feet!

 

[Bubbajms]

One thing I CAN say for sure - watching someone do it on video doesn't mean you can do it! I've seen video of people drawing with their weak hand and there's just no way I can duplicate a lot of those moves..

Of course, I don't claim to be highly flexible either

 

[Soundslikejosh]

If you are at the point where you have to transition from the primary strong side gun to the secondary strong side gun, I think you are ay past the "quick feet" stage. QFS is before the primary gun.

 

[bwframe]

Two guns is the best solution, if that is not possible, then have some quick feet!

I only wish I could draw and shoot as fast with my strong hand as you can with your weak hand.

 

[rhino]

I don't know if it will be included in the DP201 curriculum or not. We will certainly consider it if enough people are interested. It's definitely an important issue that needs to be settled for a given individual . . . before you need to do it for real! The problem is that there is a limited number of things you can do in a one day class, so we'll have to think about it.

The way I would teach it is the same way Louis Awerbuck teaches it, which is natural because he's the guy who taught me. With his method, you do not try to achieve a firing grip initially. This may sound odd, but it works pretty well. You reach in front or behind, get the gun, then put it between your knees. Then, you get a firing grip, making sure to index your trigger finger on your leg to make double sure you don't put it inside the trigger guard. Again, some may disagree, but this is not something that I think lends itself to learning from reading about it or watching videos.

I really thought I would get more response than this... surprising. Rhino, do you and ObiJohn address anything in this discussion in the def. pistol 201?

After working with it today, and not having anyone there to address other angles I feel that it would be awesome to have actual imput from someone who has worked through this and feels it is a necessary and practical issue to resolve.

 

[HICKMAN]

I am like rhino, there is no way for me to access my holstered gun with my "weakhand".

Two guns is the best solution, if that is not possible, then have some quick feet!

I'd like to see you and Rhino demonstrate that next weekend

 

[shooter521]

You reach in front or behind, get the gun, then put it between your knees. Then, you get a firing grip, making sure to index your trigger finger on your leg to make double sure you don't put it inside the trigger guard.

The way I was taught was to reach across the front of your body (assuming strong side carry behind the point of the hip) and grab the gun as if you were going to hold it upside-down and shoot it with your pinky. Pull the gun out of the holster, then index it flat against your body and roll it upright into a proper grip. Harder to explain than it is to do, and at no point does the muzzle sweep any body parts. Obviously, this won't work for certain body types or with certain holsters (the ALS security rig took some doing and is way slow). Accessing the BUG in my off-side pocket is much faster.

 

[rhino]

We actually discussed methods similar to that (if not identical). There are definitely many ways to skin this particular cat.

The way I do it (if I have to do it) is as I explained, but I have to use a cross draw or be carrying in the appendix position to reach it.

No matter how you get it done, though, it's never going to be as efficient as a second gun. An airweight j frame in the support side front pocket in a good pocket holster is ideal for this role.

The way I was taught was to reach across the front of your body (assuming strong side carry behind the point of the hip) and grab the gun as if you were going to hold it upside-down and shoot it with your pinky. Pull the gun out of the holster, then index it flat against your body and roll it upright into a proper grip. Harder to explain than it is to do, and at no point does the muzzle sweep any body parts. Obviously, this won't work for certain body types or with certain holsters (the ALS security rig took some doing and is way slow). Accessing the BUG in my off-side pocket is much faster.

 

[bwframe]

The way I was taught was to reach across the front of your body (assuming strong side carry behind the point of the hip) and grab the gun as if you were going to hold it upside-down and shoot it with your pinky. Pull the gun out of the holster, then index it flat against your body and roll it upright into a proper grip.

Thanks, I like it. That's much easier than limbering myself up enough to make the longer reach. Icing on the cake for me, with the dinosaur gun, is that I can operate the safety in the roll.

This has me practicing the necessary skills that often I take for granted. I shoot pretty well left handed, getting a fair amount of practice doing so. However, drawing, reloading and racking the slide with weak hand only don't get practiced nearly enough. I just discovered extra effort may be needed to operate the mag release with the weak index finger.

 

[JosephR]

Your explanation of the holster position doesn't yield any "unsafe" scenarios in my mind. Maybe you are placing a strong hand holster in a **** spot so as to make it harder to draw weak handed?


I know where my comptac goes and I HAVE no problem drawing weak from it.

What is your point?

That it's possible to create a hairy scenario if you try? Yeah, good job.

 

[bwframe]

Your explanation of the holster position doesn't yield any "unsafe" scenarios in my mind. Maybe you are placing a strong hand holster in a **** spot so as to make it harder to draw weak handed?


I know where my comptac goes and I HAVE no problem drawing weak from it.

What is your point?

That it's possible to create a hairy scenario if you try? Yeah, good job.

Dammit Joe! Why do you have to be that way?

 

[singlestacksig]

I usally carry just behind the center line on strong side..
I am able to reach behind my back with my left hand and reach my gun..
It is something to practice, but should only be practiced with an empty gun....
there is no way to do it with out sweeping everyone near you....

If you carry you should learn a method and practice it..


I unfortunatly have been in a situation where my strong arm was useless and had to reach with my off hand..