Coyotes and thermal vision scopes

[uberpeck]

Does anyone on INGO have experience with thermal vision scopes. I'm contemplating saving some money for a FLIR scout purchase to mount onto my rifle. However, I would need some real life experiences of others before I dive into such a project.

 

[bstewrat3]

You may check into the legality of using one for hunting. I know the hunting guide specifically prohibits using them to locate deer even after the shot.

 

[Mgderf]

You may check into the legality of using one for hunting. I know the hunting guide specifically prohibits using them to locate deer even after the shot.

Night vision is perfectly legal in Indiana for hunting coyote.

 

[churchmouse]

Have friends that only hunt Yote at night with vision gear.

 

[42769vette]

I have played with them a few times, but Im far from a expert. Im on my 3rd NV unit now trying to find what gives me the preformance I require, as cheap as possible. I think I finally go there on a 5000 dollar unit.

 

[Trigger Time]

Night vision is perfectly legal in Indiana for hunting coyote.

Night vision and thermal are very different things.

 

[remauto1187]

Night vision and thermal are very different things.

+1 Night Vision has PMT's (photo multiplier tubes) which essentially amplify light. Thermal Imagers have nothing to do with light amplification. They give a image based on heat signatures.

 

[Onebad06vtx]

Your better off using gen 3 night vision as thermal dont give you the detail that nv does.

 

[Trigger Time]

Your better off using gen 3 night vision as thermal dont give you the detail that nv does.

That depends on your budget. Thermal can be VERY sharp and can be used in the daytime as well. But get ready to max out your credit card! (That's based on numbers from afew years ago that I saw. I have no idea what's availible in the civilian market)

 

[Dss21]

Does anyone on INGO have experience with thermal vision scopes. I'm contemplating saving some money for a FLIR scout purchase to mount onto my rifle. However, I would need some real life experiences of others before I dive into such a project.

If you go to Predatormastersforums.com the have a section titled "Night Hunting". There is a ton of info there about NV and Thermals from guys that are using them to hunt. Hope this helps.

 

[uberpeck]

Thanks guys. The unit I am referring to cost about 2500, as a predator package from FLIR. The actual unit is small and not design for firearm mount necessarily, but they have marketed it as such and it seems to work fine for fellas on YouTube.

 

[42769vette]

Personally I would be hesitant putting a 2500 dollar unit that was not designed to take recoil on a firearm no matter what YouTube says. I would defintally call the company and ask if you put it on a gun if its covered, because if not you might end up with a expensive paperweight.

 

[Sailor]

Having used both pvs-14's and FLIR at the same time, the FLIR hands down locates what you are looking for better. I did not use it mounted though. I have IR laser and the 14's to get on target once it is located.

I will be picking one up when my day trading acct is where it needs to be.

 

[SmileDocHill]

Paging "TheUziButton". I can't remember what his system was but basically turned the night into day!

 

[CountryBoy19]

Generall (quality/price aside) Night vision (light amplification) devices give a much more clear/crisp image but they are very "mono-chrome" in color so it can be hard to "spot" what you're looking for quickly, especially without movement.

Thermal (IR) is excellent at very quickly picking out anything that is warmer than it's surroundings, but until you get way, way up in price/quality, it is typically very poor at providing a crisp enough picture to be able to identify what you are looking at and make a clean kill.

Therefore, when night hunting you often see people with both. They use a handheld IR unit to spot likely targets then use their NVG to identify and shoot targets.

Using a $2500 IR unit to actually aim through is not going to work well in your favor. You are going to very easily mistake dog for coyote, deer for small horse, and many other potential mis-identifications because you don't have the clarity with a cheap IR unit.

My recommendation is start with some quality GEN III night vision then move up to a handheld thermal for spotting once you can afford it.

 

[djl02]

If your talking about real thermo imaging,We had one in the powerhouse ,where I use to work. It cost 75,000.It was a neat . We used it to check for cracks in transformers. You can use one to see images, but I don't know how you would use one for hunting. I have a couple Gen 1 + ,there alright for the price. I set them up on varmint rifles for yote hunting.
I always thought it would be neat to scan the woods with one also. You could even do some ghost hunting.

 

[Trigger Time]

The military has thermal sights that you can attach at the end of a scope. Thermal has many great applications and it is CLEAR! There are limitations. Night vision has more limitations but if you are going to use nv I would recomend something like a pvs-14 and then mount a peq infrared laser and illuminator on your weapon platform. They also have nv systems (even the pvs-14 comes with a weapons mount) that attach directly infront of the scope. With the AR style platform I'd recomend the 2 seperate systems. I don't know if something like the pvs-10 is even on the civilian market but that's another option.

what is your budget? And what is the max distance you'll be safely shooting at night? Max distance is never your true safe distance to identify what's beyond your target.
I understand if you don't want to answer the budget question. For a decent nv option your probly looking at at least 3k.

 

[CountryBoy19]

The military has thermal sights that you can attach at the end of a scope. Thermal has many great applications and it is CLEAR! There are limitations. Night vision has more limitations but if you are going to use nv I would recomend something like a pvs-14 and then mount a peq infrared laser and illuminator on your weapon platform. They also have nv systems (even the pvs-14 comes with a weapons mount) that attach directly infront of the scope. With the AR style platform I'd recomend the 2 seperate systems. I don't know if something like the pvs-10 is even on the civilian market but that's another option.

what is your budget? And what is the max distance you'll be safely shooting at night? Max distance is never your true safe distance to identify what's beyond your target.
I understand if you don't want to answer the budget question. For a decent nv option your probly looking at at least 3k.

Define "clear" in regards to use of Thermal. "Clear" as in you can make things out easily? That will depend greatly upon what level of optic you're using. $2500 isn't going to be clear at all. $5000 will get you more clear. $25,000 will get you what I would call "clear".

Also, you have to be careful front mounting NVGs to optics because you will get a phenomenon call "image shift" that isn't always repeatable (depending on quality of NVD). Which means you have to confirm zero every time you put the optic on even if you didn't move your scope/aiming device.

Another worthwhile point, not many NVG systems are rated for weapon attachment to calibers greater than .223/5.56 so if you plan to go with weapon mounted then consider the caliber you will be shooting and choose your NVD based on that.

Another note, there are no commercially available PEQ units. If you have one or know somebody that has one it is most likely stolen military property. You can purchase similar units but they are not called PEQ and the IR diode is not as powerful because it has to comply with civiliain laser emittance guidelines (I think that is Class III). Most people that use an IR laser for aiming are also using head-mounted NVGs. This gives the benefit of having NVG without the need to point your rifle at everything you look at, and you can shoot calibers larger than what your NVG is rated at. It also allows you to walk normal. It does take some practice shooting though. You shoulder the weapon but must keep your head up away from the weapon to be able to see the laser dot being projected out from the rifle.

 

[Hookeye]

I kinda thought a Leupold VX3, on a .257 Weatherby Mag zinging 85 grainers, would offer a bit of coyote thermal vision

 

[Trigger Time]

Define "clear" in regards to use of Thermal. "Clear" as in you can make things out easily? That will depend greatly upon what level of optic you're using. $2500 isn't going to be clear at all. $5000 will get you more clear. $25,000 will get you what I would call "clear".

Also, you have to be careful front mounting NVGs to optics because you will get a phenomenon call "image shift" that isn't always repeatable (depending on quality of NVD). Which means you have to confirm zero every time you put the optic on even if you didn't move your scope/aiming device.

Another worthwhile point, not many NVG systems are rated for weapon attachment to calibers greater than .223/5.56 so if you plan to go with weapon mounted then consider the caliber you will be shooting and choose your NVD based on that.

Another note, there are no commercially available PEQ units. If you have one or know somebody that has one it is most likely stolen military property. You can purchase similar units but they are not called PEQ and the IR diode is not as powerful because it has to comply with civiliain laser emittance guidelines (I think that is Class III). Most people that use an IR laser for aiming are also using head-mounted NVGs. This gives the benefit of having NVG without the need to point your rifle at everything you look at, and you can shoot calibers larger than what your NVG is rated at. It also allows you to walk normal. It does take some practice shooting though. You shoulder the weapon but must keep your head up away from the weapon to be able to see the laser dot being projected out from the rifle.

like I mentioned before, the level of clear I'm referring to with thermal would mean maxing out your credit. For most people myself included. For nv with a proper illuminator you can achieve clear with genIII, but your distance will not be as great still.
I'm not familiar with prices or availability of items on the civilian market. I've only had experience with military versions. Nothing I own is stolen property, but I know that is an issue and always will be if you buy things second hand. Not all former military items are stolen though.
How do the civilian IR units compare? Anyone have experience with them or who makes a good version?

the part you mention about the use of head mounted nvgs and an IR laser is exactly what I said in my previous post. That's what I'd use.
i mentioned other options just to provide the information for a choice to the op.

id contact the guy in here that sells the scopes. If he can't advise you best I'm sure he will know who can. From what I've seen of his postings he knows his business well and had a lot of happy customers