Couples That Carry

[wolfman]

Do you both carry all the time when together?

No, I carry all the time, she only carries when alone

Do you have a plan about who does what if SHTF?

Yup, I engage the BG, she takes nearest cover, alerts me to hidden threats, and calls for back up.

Do you carry the same caliber to ammo share?

No

Do you practice in tandem for different bad scenarios?

No but probably should.

Do you divide up responsibilities about returning BG fire vs grabbing your kids and getting out of harm's way?

No kids, but I take care of the BG, and she acts as observer in case someone has to be told what happened.

 

[obijohn]

Do you have a plan about who does what if SHTF?
Do you divide up responsibilities about returning BG fire vs grabbing your kids and getting out of harm's way?

I'll take these last two together. If you don't practice together, you will be less effective, and potentially dangerous to one another in a critical incident. Just because there are two of you it does not negate the need for a plan. It probably emphasizes it. After all, you don’t want to both be going for the little ones while no one is dealing with the threat. Most common teamwork will apply in some form. Unfortunately, only small amounts will apply completely. A lot of teamwork training is centered around LE or MIL training, and their objectives just don’t always clearly line up with the objectives of the family members. My suggestion is to start by talking about it, and some different scenarios that could occur. This applies whether your spouse carries or not. You’d hate to have your wife or kids running around screaming like mad as you’re trying to get everyone to cover and shoot the bad guy. Just by rules of efficiency, you should divide the work. I would recommend that the one who is the primary threat engager do nothing but that. That’s a hard enough job. The teammates job is to move to cover with the rest of the family, then bring out the pistol and support. I prefer something more like an executive protection model when thinking about spouses working together.

Just my 2 cents.

Tinman….

excellent points, tinman. and the .mil/leo focus of most small group exercises are what led us to really start thinking about how this should work for a family or other "unit" that regularly travels together. the EP model is closer to what we are working with for our course. the issue, for me, is that we avoid trying to roll like an infantry squad.

 

[rhino]

The fact that one does not carry or rarely does so doesn't mean that you don't need to plan and even practice some together. The people with you need to know what to do if there is a problem, even if their sole task is to stay the hell out of your way and not get between you and the threats. You can't stress that enough.

And if they are a hostage, do they know what they are supposed to do? Are they going to just shake and make themselves a difficult target to miss if your best solution is to take the shot on the guy holding them? Or did you plan ahead and tell them to just go limp and fall to the ground if someone is trying to use them as a shield? If the latter, did you explain why it's a good idea and why they need to react (ideally) in a predictable manner to help you do YOUR job?

This is a great topic in my opinion. It's fun to think out loud too.

 

[rhino]

the EP model is closer to what we are working with for our course.

This is why people should have four, burly sons or nephews so they can form a proper diamond formation around you while you're at the grocery store.

 

[dclaarjr]

Until recently, I couldn't get my wife to even look at a gun or discuss delf defense in or out of the home. After showing her some videos, highlighting news stories and stuff, I finally got her to listen and shoot a gun. Only a 22 but its a start. I'll mover her up as she shows interest.

SO we do not carry all the time when together. I am the only one who can legally carry. She shows no interest in getting a CHL.

We do have plans for SHTF at home. Since I travel so much for work, I worked out plans for her for when I am gone. I'm still getting her used to the idea of planning outside the home.

We do not use the same caliber ammo. Let's be real here, I'm not carrying a 22, and as small as she is and her fear of recoil, I doubt if I will get her to shoot anything larger than a 380. I carry 9MM and 357.

I do like the idea of a training course for couples. I am trying to see if I can incorporate it into a personal protection course geared for just couples.

 

[obijohn]

This is why people should have four, burly sons or nephews so they can form a proper diamond formation around you while you're at the grocery store.

or one spencer!!

 

[Tinman]

excellent points, tinman. and the .mil/leo focus of most small group exercises are what led us to really start thinking about how this should work for a family or other "unit" that regularly travels together. the EP model is closer to what we are working with for our course. the issue, for me, is that we avoid trying to roll like an infantry squad.

The nice thing about using the EP model comes into play when you start looking at low key protection details. I've seen some teams rolling that unless you were very astute, you wouldn't know they were security. They seldom used the traditional formations, but always maintain close protection of the principal. When you look at these types of units, and their movements, that’s exactly the methods you do want to roll around with. That allows the individual, or couple team to best protect their principal’s, the family, or each other. Even more important (even if you do dump the precontact movement and formations) is the actions of individual detail members at the point of contact (POC). That’s where we can really best use the EP model to train couples. It does however bring up some interesting problems for certain situations. For instance, inside a building, if there is only one armed player for the good guys, how does the rest of the team exit the building safely, what about the bad guys ringers that may be on the exit routes (in the case of strong arm robberies), do you want to begin hostilities on 2 fronts with a divided team of this size?

I guess, I’m developing more questions than answers here, sorry.

Rhino makes some good points on coaching the hostage response. After all, this isn’t the TV world, and the Mexican standoff always ends badly for someone, might as well be the bad guy right.

It also makes sense to develop some codes that only the inner circle know. That will help you all communicate potential threats without alerting the whole world.

Like I said, I’m diverging this thread a bit, so I’ll shut up now.

Tinman….