Could someone jump through enough hoops for a post '86 MG?

[THE BIG SITT]

While doing my daydreaming about hitting the lotto, a thought crossed my mind. If money wasn't an issue, could someone start their own gun shop, get all of the proper licenses, use the shop's licenses to buy post '86 machine guns, and then take them to their home and or to the range with them? Basically, if money wasn't an issue, could someone own post '86 MGs?


Or... could someone purchase a portion of an existing class III gun shop and use their ownership to accomplish the same as above?


Obviously this is all hypothetical until I hit the lotto.

 

[Clay]

sure you could with the proper licenses. Now could you take them to your home? that's probably pushing it, but if you owned a shop with the proper licenses then you could buy all the brand new machine guns you wanted and take them to the range. Lots of places do.

 

[Tactically Fat]

And you could afford the business "losses" of owning a gun shop.

And yes, you could take them home because you'd be the one all over the paperwork for the business. Especially if you bought enough land on to have your own range. Gotta do your own T&E, ya know?

Can't just be a wealthy dude who applies for all the proper licenses. You have to be able to prove to the BATFE that you're in the business AS a business.

 

[1775usmarine]

If money was not an issues then why not after getting all prime and proper for the BATFE try to run a legit business.

 

[MohawkSlim]

If you have enough money the government will help you.

 

[Beowulf]

Basically, you have to be willing to dump $2900 into the government's pocket each year ($150 manufacturer, $500 for 07/02, and $2250 for ITAR... which is total BS). Then you need to set up a shop somewhere with regular hours (probably can still get away with running out of your home, but I'm not sure). Then add insurance on top of that. Then equipment and other supplies, plus power, water, and rent (if you aren't running out of home).

But yeah, if you have the money, you should be able to do so. I've tossed the idea around of doing just this (with a few friends to help spread the cost and the work involved) with the idea of running it as a side business since we all have day jobs. It seems like it could be fun, but also a huge hassle.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

I would not want to own my own gun shop. Yeah it would be cool. But just think of the people that come in just to talk. There is one guy at my lgs every time I walk in to buy something he's in the shop taking up the owners time and mine. Not to say his revenue because people leave due to him taking up time. Oh yeah and all the fees, insurance, liability, etc, etc. sounds fun!!!

 

[THE BIG SITT]

I would not want to own my own gun shop. Yeah it would be cool. But just think of the people that come in just to talk. There is one guy at my lgs every time I walk in to buy something he's in the shop taking up the owners time and mine. Not to say his revenue because people leave due to him taking up time. Oh yeah and all the fees, insurance, liability, etc, etc. sounds fun!!!

In the above scenario you would never actually be working in the shop, just "operating" it.

 

[rvb]

to get post 86 samples, I think you also have to have an in w/ local LEO... you can get the transfer of the samples approved, IF you have LEO certifying they want to demo the hardware. I don't think it's -just- a matter of getting the SOT straight. So not just what you know, but who. I've known guys who got whatever they wanted because they were buddy buddy w/ local police chief or sheriff. Never done it personally, so just stating my understanding. Someone can feel free to correct me....

-rvb

 

[BogWalker]

to get post 86 samples, I think you also have to have an in w/ local LEO... you can get the transfer of the samples approved, IF you have LEO certifying they want to demo the hardware. I don't think it's -just- a matter of getting the SOT straight. So not just what you know, but who. I've known guys who got whatever they wanted because they were buddy buddy w/ local police chief or sheriff. Never done it personally, so just stating my understanding. Someone can feel free to correct me....

-rvb

Didn't Blackwater end up in a heap of trouble for having a similar arrangement?

 

[ljk]

It's not called as love letter for nothing.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

If money is no issue why wouldn't you just use the money you would throw away "running" a money losing business and buy guns that would appreciate? The money you would lose over time will far surpass the actual outright purchase of firearms that will appreciate over that same time.i mean, money being no issue as you put it

 

[BogWalker]

If money is no issue why wouldn't you just use the money you would throw away "running" a money losing business and buy guns that would appreciate? The money you would lose over time will far surpass the actual outright purchase of firearms that will appreciate over that same time.i mean, money being no issue as you put it

Because he wants post-86 machineguns.

 

[Beowulf]

to get post 86 samples, I think you also have to have an in w/ local LEO... you can get the transfer of the samples approved, IF you have LEO certifying they want to demo the hardware. I don't think it's -just- a matter of getting the SOT straight. So not just what you know, but who. I've known guys who got whatever they wanted because they were buddy buddy w/ local police chief or sheriff. Never done it personally, so just stating my understanding. Someone can feel free to correct me....

-rvb

What you are saying is correct for a Class 3 FFL. They need a demo letter from LE to purchase a sample. While it was pretty common back in the days to buddy up to a sheriff or chief and get a letter for whatever you want, it's my understanding that the ATF has been cracking down on this behavior (why, I have no idea, since they set up the stupid rule to begin with).

But and 07/02 is a manufacturer. If they needed a letter, that would be like Colt or HK needing a letter to produce one machine gun for military use. As a manufacturer, you can build whatever you are licensed for (an 07/02 vs Type 10) and you just need to Form 2 it to the ATF within 48 hours of manufacture.

Of course the downside is that this is only true if you manufacture the gun yourself. So, if you really want a full auto PKM belt fed, you better get a parts kit and get out the welding torch.

 

[Hop]

A friend of mine did exactly this. Oklahoma Machine Guns now has a rental counter inside Wilshire Guns. And boy has he built some nice stuff. I really need to take a trip down to see him.

https://wilshiregun.com/ranges-rentals/class-3-rentals/

 

[ljk]

IF money isn't an issue, just buy as many transferables as you can, no fuze, no buze.

The value can only go up.

 

[Beowulf]

A friend of mine did exactly this. Oklahoma Machine Guns now has a rental counter inside Wilshire Guns. And boy has he built some nice stuff. I really need to take a trip down to see him.

https://wilshiregun.com/ranges-rentals/class-3-rentals/

Wow, that's quite a facility. Pretty cool.

 

[tbhausen]

If it floats, flies, ****s, or full-autos, don't buy, rent

 

[Tactically Fat]

IF money isn't an issue, just buy as many transferables as you can, no fuze, no buze.

The value can only go up.

And they can also be rendered moot with a few strokes of a pen.

At least if you're in the business of making/selling, you can at least pretend to entertain LE clients who may wish to have your wares in their department arsenal.

 

[tbhausen]

I'd personally be loathe to participate in any bureaucratic processes which define, delineate, and perpetuate what's good enough for "them" vs. what's good enough for "us". I'd rather stay completely away, and just go rent a MG when I get the itch. Bad enough we have to jump through hoops to obtain suppressors--simple personal protective equipment.