Common OC/CC threadjack

[redneckmedic]

This explains a lot...

It actually explains about everything!!!

 

[Michiana]

You forgot an option

I know a gentleman who once told how he was inside a local auto parts store when multiple armed men came inside to rob the place. This gentleman was actually not carrying at all (he had JUST left the range and left his Glock in the truck. . . .) at the time. For the sake of this thread, let's assume he was carrying in one of two ways:

1) he was carrying concealed.

2) he was carrying openly.

For option #1, it would've been a tense situation, as he would have to choose his timing precisely. But, unless they gave him a pat-down, he would have the element of surprise on his side. He could choose to act immediately or to wait for a better opportunity.

For option #2, I am curious what would've transpired at that point. The "deterrence" argument would be moot in this case, as they gunmen entered without seeing ANY customers first. The BGs rush in and round up all the customers. I'm sure at some point one of them would've noticed. Now, they might not have shot him on the spot, but I'm willing to bet they would've certainly disarmed him immediately. And that would leave him limited options-- like having to shoot sooner than he might've if he was carrying concealed.

I dunno. It was just one incident (which didn't even involve a gun in reality), but one I ponder when the OC vs. CC debate comes up.

Option three would be to stand back and do nothing unless you are threatened and let them rob the place and leave. Stay back, stay quiet and don't act threatening towards the bad guys. Why would anyone risk getting killed to save some auto parts store a few bucks. Personally that would be my choice and would guess most sensible people in that situation.

It is one thing to talk the talk, it is another to walk the walk and I believe many of these Wyatt Earp's we have on here would probably **** their pants in that situation. Again, I still want to hear from one person on this forum who actually has had to draw their gun, not a story someone heard. Personally I do not know anyone.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Option three would be to stand back and do nothing unless you are threatened and let them rob the place and leave. Stay back, stay quiet and don't act threatening towards the bad guys. Why would anyone risk getting killed to save some auto parts store a few bucks. Personally that would be my choice and would guess most sensible people in that situation.

It is one thing to talk the talk, it is another to walk the walk and I believe many of these Wyatt Earp's we have on here would probably **** their pants in that situation. Again, I still want to hear from one person on this forum who actually has had to draw their gun, not a story someone heard. Personally I do not know anyone.

What about people who get shot just because? Did they ever catch the scum bag that shot the pregnant teller in the stomach? That is why I would have to intervene.

Until it happens everything is talk. Including your Wyatt Earp comment. The fact that I have never had to draw my gun is no reason to dismiss the reason to have it.

 

[Dryden]

Again, I still want to hear from one person on this forum who actually has had to draw their gun, not a story someone heard. Personally I do not know anyone.

There's an old saying: If you've carried a gun for many years and have never drawn it, you did the right thing....stay alert, watch your back and don't do anything too stupid. (You may also want to add a little LUCK to that list)

 

[jeremy]

It is one thing to talk the talk, it is another to walk the walk and I believe many of these Wyatt Earp's we have on here would probably **** their pants in that situation. Again, I still want to hear from one person on this forum who actually has had to draw their gun, not a story someone heard. Personally I do not know anyone.

I can actually say I have never had to draw my gun inside the United States of America...

And as far as being a Wyatt Earp and having **** running down my leg. Nope that hasn't happen yet either. I have been so f*cking scared I could not sh*t for a week though... But that was not inside the US either.

 

[Michiana]

What about people who get shot just because? Did they ever catch the scum bag that shot the pregnant teller in the stomach? That is why I would have to intervene.

Until it happens everything is talk. Including your Wyatt Earp comment. The fact that I have never had to draw my gun is no reason to dismiss the reason to have it.

I never dismissed your reason to have a gun or carry a gun or a knife or a baseball bat. All I said is the best option is to stay uninvolved if at all possible. If a couple of guys are robbing the 7-11 and you are behind them and pull a gun and shoot them you will probably get sued and maybe go to jail yourself. You will most likely have to spend thousands of dollars in lawyer fees. If you yelled out for them to drop their gun they would probably turn around as shoot you as you will most likely hesitate, they probably wouldn't.

Most people, including me would be scared in that situation and if you say you wouldn't be I find that hard to believe. Cops are constantly trained for these types of situations and have the law on their side, the low life bad guys don't care or are on drugs and the average Joe is at a disavantage in a situation like this. You only act when it is life or death to you or someone else, not to save the storeowner's money.

 

[Dryden]

Michiana: O.K., that last post made more sense. I agree, there are times when drawing a weapon may not be your best option.
As far as someone posting their experience on a public forum, that may be unwise. Chances are, they are in litigation or are under threat of litigation. Either way, I certainly wouldn't publish it for the world to see.

 

[Michiana]

confirms my thoughts on the subject

Michiana: O.K., that last post made more sense. I agree, there are times when drawing a weapon may not be your best option.
As far as someone posting their experience on a public forum, that may be unwise. Chances are, they are in litigation or are under threat of litigation. Either way, I certainly wouldn't publish it for the world to see.

If there are people out there who went through a situation and are now in legal trouble it only confirms what I have been saying; don't esculate the situation for yourself unless your life is in danger. Look at the guy who worked at McDonalds and got hurt helping stop a mugging and the company will not pay the guys medical bills. Crazy.

 

[ATM]

The scenario drifts to the one I described in the OP where the carrier is not the one directly threatened and left with the option of leaving it hidden or saving the day.

If someone is threatening or robbing in my vicinity, I AM threatened. So is everyone else who witnesses it.

If there are people out there who went through a situation and are now in legal trouble it means they lived through it. There is no reason to assume they would or would not still be alive had they not acted. We simply know that they lived, my #1 goal as well.

 

[bwframe]

...I have been so f*cking scared I could not sh*t for a week though... But that was not inside the US either.

I guess there is no truth in the old statement "Scared the sh*t out of them."

Seriously, that's quite an experience you've had. Thank you for sharing it and your service!

 

[kingnereli]

If there are people out there who went through a situation and are now in legal trouble it only confirms what I have been saying; don't esculate the situation for yourself unless your life is in danger. Look at the guy who worked at McDonalds and got hurt helping stop a mugging and the company will not pay the guys medical bills. Crazy.

This is, of coarse, all talk but I don't think that I could live with myself if I let someone get killed if I had the power to stop it. If it was a simple robbery (if there is such a thing) and I didn't feel anyones life was in danger I may just stay quiet. As likely as not everyone in the place is going to be in danger. Legal trouble after a shooting is a lawsuit (assuming the shooting was justified.)

You should be careful though. This is almost a thread jack of the OC/CC threadjack thread. The topic of this thread is the merits of OC/CC not whether or not someone should intervene in a dangerous situation.

Ok, back on topic. I OC almost all the time. I understand CC and do it when I need to. I buy into the deterrent argument as well as the interests of changing the perception of gun owners. The Sheeple seem to stay calm when they see me with a gun on one hip and my 1 year old daughter slung on the other hip. I am just an average looking guy not a bubba with my AK shooting up an old rusted pick up truck in my hay field. (Not that I have a problem with bubbas and their AKs.)

I have rarely been kicked out anywhere because of my gun. There are a couple of places in town I have to cover up because of their gun policy but that is rare here. Regardless, its not an issue. When I go in somewhere I am not sure of their policy I go in OCing because the vast majority of the time there is somewhere else to take my money if they don't want me there with a gun. If I don't want kicked out I just cover up.

As for the CC arguments, here is what I don't get. If a BG is really determined to kill you he will try whether you are armed or not so OC or CC he is still trying to kill you. If everyone CCed a BG wouldn't know who was armed and would pick a victim for another reason. That might be you. If everyone OCed a BG would know who is armed and who is not and likely go for the easier mark. If displaying my gun has any chance of preventing me from needing to use it I will do it. Any chance at all. I also like walking like John Wayne when I OC. haha J/K

The interesting thing about the OC/CC thing is that there aren't really any clear studies or numbers to appeal to for evidence. It is how we individually see a given situation and our preferred response as well as the priority we put on deterrence or surprise. However, I think it was spasmo that made a good point about OCing will basically require you to act in a situation. I can see how there wouldn't be the choice to do nothing like there would be if you were concealed.

 

[Michiana]

conformation on position

This is, of coarse, all talk but I don't think that I could live with myself if I let someone get killed if I had the power to stop it. If it was a simple robbery (if there is such a thing) and I didn't feel anyones life was in danger I may just stay quiet.
You should be careful though. This is almost a thread jack of the OC/CC threadjack thread. The topic of this thread is the merits of OC/CC not whether or not someone should intervene in a dangerous situation.
.

I read the thread as a pro-con for CC vs OC in a situation where you were at a place where a criminal act was in progress. My position is stay still and keep your mouth shut UNLESS YOUR LIFE OR SOMEONE ELSE'S IS IN JEOPARITY. Doing nothing is an option just as the OC persons gun might scare the BG off or the CC guy and get the jump on the BG by having a hidden gun. There is not enough money in this world to give my life for let alone some stores cash register. Enough said on this subject.

 

[ATM]

OK,

So why is this idea, which is only superior to some people in a limited scope of hypothetical scenarios, thrown so frequently into posts where it doesn't apply?

It has become humorously expected. It wouldn't be so bad if it were supported or referenced in only a limited scope, but most often it's a drive-by and fairly non sequitur to the thread. Does anyone really think it happens often and needs to be stated for the OCer's safety? (I doubt it.)

Or is there a strong desire to be ready that one day, in that perfect chain of events... to ambush the negligent bad guy.

Is that deep down inside of most people? Probably. But I wouldn't base my carry method position on it. If I did, it might make me too eager to defend it at all costs against statistics, data, and even other people's choices.


*This is still not about the many other valid and personal reasons to OC or CC. Carry on.

 

[cce1302]

I like the one that goes "you shouldn't OC because nobody OC's." Really no logic behind it at all. Just that because it isn't common, it shouldn't be done.


The other one I like is along the lines of "you'll have to explain yourself to every soccer mom out there who sees your gun" like it would be a bad thing for liberals to see a reasonable, respectable person, carrying a handgun responsibly in contrast to the thugs on TV and the news every day misusing firearms.
I haven't gotten the chance while OCing to explain why I carry, but a smile or a wave, or a friendly conversation while walking with my family through the neighborhood certainly can go a long way toward giving us a positive image.
The only reactions I've noticed either way were from some college-age kids while I was eating lunch with my wife at Chipotle. I caught them staring a couple times. I like to think that they want to be just like me when they grow up.

 

[Archbishop]

I have solved this debate.
I OC and CC at the same time. Gun on the side at 4oclock and one in the pocket next to my wallet.

 

[rhino]

I have solved this debate.
I OC and CC at the same time. Gun on the side at 4oclock and one in the pocket next to my wallet.

You see the light, sir. Bravo.

 

[ATM]

The inner turmoil must wear you down.

 

[Felix]

I have never made a decisiton to be an oc or a cc person.
were my gun (guns) are carried reqally depends on what I am wearing. then secondly where I am going.
If I am going to church I am CC. It makes sence. I would have to purpose to OC and would olny be drawing unneeded attention to myself for selfesh reasons. I go to church to serve worship and fellowship. I would not want to be a distraction because I "have the right"
If I am running to Menards and wereing shorts and I tshirt Its kind of hard to CC.
I dont purpose to OC or CC but I do purpose to Carry!

 

[dross]

Hi Points suck, and every real man carries a .45. 9mm is only a little better than a .22.

Sorry, I just thought that after as many threads as this subject has hijacked, it deserved a jack back.

 

[Johnson]

Here's a question. For those of you who regularly OC, what type of holster do you use? Specifically, what type of retention? I have OC'd occassionly, usually when it is just a quick trip out of the car (pumping gas, getting cash from the ATM, etc). Since I use a holster with no retention strap, I wouldn't even consider OCing in a holster that someone could easily snatch it from. Just curious what others do.