Colt Buys LWRC, 60M

[MilitaryArms]

Well there goes the quality

That's my opinion as well. LWRC is a small shop where each gun is built by a smith, which is why the prices are so high.

I believe Colt will keep the prices artificially high while reducing production costs by mass producing the M6 IC -- gone forever will be the hand assembled semi-custom rifle we once paid a premium to own.

Of course this is pure speculation on my part and Colt may choose to keep LWRC as a small semi-custom shop. However, if history is any indication of what's to come, I believe my speculation above will be the end result.

 

[Dean C.]

I think MAC might be right on this one unfortunately I hope that LWRC keeps its awesome quality and product as I have wanted a MC IC for a while.

 

[Fordtough25]

I'm still shocked by the Colt bashing party in this thread?!? What was wrong with their choices before the 6920? Or their quality now?

 

[MilitaryArms]

What's wrong with Colt quality? My LE6920 has performed flawlessly, and all parts fit very well. I've been to the range with the rifle 6 times (my first rifle) and I shoot < 2MOA groups @100yds, not too bad for an inexperienced noobie I think.

No malfunctions in the 750 or so rounds fired through it so far and all hit the paper.

There is nothing wrong with your 6920's quality. It does what it was designed to do. It's built to minimum quality standards as set forth by US military specifications. Rifles like the M6 IC far exceed military specifications in terms of design, quality of parts and materials, and fit. That's why a 6920 costs $1,200 and a M6 IC costs $2500.

Colt mass produces military grade rifles. If they apply those same manufacturing capabilities to the LWRC line, the quality will drop while the price will likely stay artificially high. It's much like what Cohen did with Sig, he moved the production of small parts over seas, made them out of MIM vs. tool steel and thus produces a lower quality product at the same price point thereby increasing profits. Investors rejoice and buyers like me find myself buying used pre-Cohen Sig pistols.

Colt is buying LWRC because they see the ability to make a profit above and beyond what they already make with their current line of AR's. The profit margins on the 6920 and the M6 IC probably are fairly close on a percentage basis, but the IC costs considerably more. If you can bring the cost of production down, you can increase the profit margin on each gun sold. That's what I fear with a buyout of LWRC.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I'll admit my ignorance when it come to valuing a firearms manufacturer but $60M doesn't seem like much...Maybe I'm prejudiced by the kind of money my company throws around for new products at our tiny plant.

LWRC is a very small operation.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Colt doesn't even compare. And really until the 6920 their AR's sucked. And I would only consider a 6920 to be a middle of the road AR. They are nowhere close to what LWRC does.
Just my opinion of course, and YMMV.

If you search back through old threads on placed like AR15.com you'll find that Colt has always been held in fairly high esteem by AR aficionados. For the longest time many in the AR world felt if it wasn't Colt it wasn't s***. Even today with some 400 different flavors of AR's out there, Colt is viewed as a defacto standard in AR's by those who know their AR's. While the 6920 is built strictly to mil-spec standards, it's easily one of the best and most consistent rifles out there in terms of quality and reliability.

 

[4PWW9]

Tagged for later reply

 

[ryknoll3]

There was nothing wrong, quality-wise with pre-6920 Colts. It just seems to me that at one time, they bought pretty heavily into the semi-auto only features, and the older guns, with sear blocks and non-standard takedown pin arrangements and SP1 BCG's make them a pain to run, unless you want them strictly as-is.

 

[LarryC]

Does the state of Connecticut still own part of Colt or did Colt pay them back? For a company who has a lot of military contracts, they seem to go bankrupt regularly.

Colt hasn't known to be the innovative type for quite some time. And when they did try something new, like the Double Eagle or the 2000 (ha), they aren't much for working right. The whole smart gun thing didn't catch on thankfully.

LWRC is at least innovative, they aren't afraid to try something new and they have good ideas.

Anyway, Colt will probably run LWRC into the ground due to bad management or they'll just shut them down and market everything under the Colt name and claim how they came up with everything LWRC did

You think Colt could come up with something like the LWRC PDW?

I disagree, I have a Colt Double Eagle, Colt Anaconda and Colt King Cobra. Compared to the fit and finish of a Colt to a S&W or Glock, is like comparing a Kimber to a Bersa. I bought the Double Eagle new over 20 years ago, it is THE most dependable 1911 style gun I have ever seen (and I collect and shoot many), the only reason I believe it didn't sell well was the price compared to standard 1911's. It is as accurate as any 1911 except for custom guns, and will effortlessly feed any 45 ACP ammo - including flying ashtrays. I have yet to see a load it will not feed and fire perfectly.

As to the Anaconda (44 Mag) it's accuracy is better than any shooter I have seen use it, (a lot better than I can shoot).

The KIng Cobra is an excellent firearm and again as, or more accurate than any .357 in its class.

As an extra for me, the selling price of these used guns is above 3 time the price I paid for them new, I have seen this at every gun show I have attended in the last year - so apparently a lot of other people don't agree with you!

 

[OneBadV8]

I disagree, I have a Colt Double Eagle, Colt Anaconda and Colt King Cobra. Compared to the fit and finish of a Colt to a S&W or Glock, is like comparing a Kimber to a Bersa. I bought the Double Eagle new over 20 years ago, it is THE most dependable 1911 style gun I have ever seen (and I collect and shoot many), the only reason I believe it didn't sell well was the price compared to standard 1911's. It is as accurate as any 1911 except for custom guns, and will effortlessly feed any 45 ACP ammo - including flying ashtrays. I have yet to see a load it will not feed and fire perfectly.

As to the Anaconda (44 Mag) it's accuracy is better than any shooter I have seen use it, (a lot better than I can shoot).

The KIng Cobra is an excellent firearm and again as, or more accurate than any .357 in its class.

As an extra for me, the selling price of these used guns is above 3 time the price I paid for them new, I have seen this at every gun show I have attended in the last year - so apparently a lot of other people don't agree with you!

Those are the "Old Colt" though. So those are still good. The new Colt isn't the same in regards to quality. IMHO

 

[halfmileharry]

I disagree, I have a Colt Double Eagle, Colt Anaconda and Colt King Cobra. Compared to the fit and finish of a Colt to a S&W or Glock, is like comparing a Kimber to a Bersa. I bought the Double Eagle new over 20 years ago, it is THE most dependable 1911 style gun I have ever seen (and I collect and shoot many), the only reason I believe it didn't sell well was the price compared to standard 1911's. It is as accurate as any 1911 except for custom guns, and will effortlessly feed any 45 ACP ammo - including flying ashtrays. I have yet to see a load it will not feed and fire perfectly.

As to the Anaconda (44 Mag) it's accuracy is better than any shooter I have seen use it, (a lot better than I can shoot).

The KIng Cobra is an excellent firearm and again as, or more accurate than any .357 in its class.

As an extra for me, the selling price of these used guns is above 3 time the price I paid for them new, I have seen this at every gun show I have attended in the last year - so apparently a lot of other people don't agree with you!

Colt WAS top notch then. I agree with you that they made some of the finest production firearms ever made. They've dropped quite a bit in quality over the last decade + or maybe last 2 decades. I'm not saying they haven't produced some good firearms since but the pride of the Pony is living on in name only.

 

[Kagnew]

Colt buys LWRC for 60M and LWRC is off to Tejas or Floriduh.

Huh. I thought the article said Texas or Florida.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

Some of you fellows must hang around on different forums than I do. I am not an AR guy, so I won't even pretend to know anything about them, but I am a 1911 guy, Colt in particular, and I just don't get some folks questioning their quality these days. Colt is churning out some of the highest quality semi-auto pistols they have in years. On this very site, how many threads have been started saying, "My new Colt sucks", or "Problems with my new Colt". I don't ever recall reading any. In fact, on the other gun forums I frequent, you don't see threads like those either. Where the notion of Colts having poor quality comes from is a mystery to me. Their 1911's flat-out run. I should know. I have over ten of them, and none of them have had the slightest hiccup.

 

[223 Gunner]

If you search back through old threads on placed like AR15.com you'll find that Colt has always been held in fairly high esteem by AR aficionados. For the longest time many in the AR world felt if it wasn't Colt it wasn't s***. Even today with some 400 different flavors of AR's out there, Colt is viewed as a defacto standard in AR's by those who know their AR's. While the 6920 is built strictly to mil-spec standards, it's easily one of the best and most consistent rifles out there in terms of quality and reliability.

I know Colt has always been held in fairly high esteem by the AR aficionados, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were a great product. I was mainly referring to the Colt rifles of the 1990's. Non Mil-Spec parts, and lower pins of a different size than anyone else, sear blocks, bolt carrier group. The fact that they seemed to magically come out with a rifle, before the AWB, minus a bayonet lug, made some speculate they were in "bed" with the Govt. and knew full well of the up coming AWB. I felt in the 1990's that Bushmaster made a better rifle than Colt did, in that same time period.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Is Freeman having fun on the Errornet again? How dare he, I am outraged, outraged! *strikes prosecutor pose, pulls on lapels, rocks on heels* I demand a non-smart alec posting rule on INGO!

Floriduh: FloriDUH Blog - Sun Sentinel

Tejas:

 

[M67]

I disagree, I have a Colt Double Eagle, Colt Anaconda and Colt King Cobra. Compared to the fit and finish of a Colt to a S&W or Glock, is like comparing a Kimber to a Bersa. I bought the Double Eagle new over 20 years ago, it is THE most dependable 1911 style gun I have ever seen (and I collect and shoot many), the only reason I believe it didn't sell well was the price compared to standard 1911's. It is as accurate as any 1911 except for custom guns, and will effortlessly feed any 45 ACP ammo - including flying ashtrays. I have yet to see a load it will not feed and fire perfectly.

As to the Anaconda (44 Mag) it's accuracy is better than any shooter I have seen use it, (a lot better than I can shoot).

The KIng Cobra is an excellent firearm and again as, or more accurate than any .357 in its class.

As an extra for me, the selling price of these used guns is above 3 time the price I paid for them new, I have seen this at every gun show I have attended in the last year - so apparently a lot of other people don't agree with you!

Well you got lucky on the Double Eagle. As for the Anaconda, have you locked it up? Put heavy duty handloads in it that a Smith would eat all day long?

I love Colt mechanics on their revolvers, old hand fit V spring models. When they started to going to machine produced instead of hand fit, ehhhh..... keeping the same retail price or higher for a cheaper made gun. Pythons are NOTORIOUS for getting out of time.

And the reason they're going for so much? Well Colt hasn't made a double action revolver in what? 17 years? How long ago was the Double Eagle stopped? They're discontinued and have the magical Colt pony on them. Collectors buy them and right now is one HELL of a Colt price bubble.

Personally, I own an Officer's Target from 49, I shoot pet loads through it for fun and would rival the fit and finish above any Python or Anaconda, and they go for much less than those delicate things.

Also, inflation. Remember when you could get a 10/22 at Walmart for $49?

 

[SIGguy]

This is crazy talk about a hell of a profit turning 5M into 60 m like a boss.. I'm still a little shocked though

 

[223 Gunner]

Not only did the Pythons get out time, so did the Troopers. But we're getting a little off topic, talking about Colt hand guns.
I still think the quality of LWRC will go down at the hands of Colt. I hope not, but we will see.

 

[venenoindy]

Some of you fellows must hang around on different forums than I do. I am not an AR guy, so I won't even pretend to know anything about them, but I am a 1911 guy, Colt in particular, and I just don't get some folks questioning their quality these days. Colt is churning out some of the highest quality semi-auto pistols they have in years. On this very site, how many threads have been started saying, "My new Colt sucks", or "Problems with my new Colt". I don't ever recall reading any. In fact, on the other gun forums I frequent, you don't see threads like those either. Where the notion of Colts having poor quality comes from is a mystery to me. Their 1911's flat-out run. I should know. I have over ten of them, and none of them have had the slightest hiccup.

While their 1911's may be reliable their fit and finish don't match their prices, I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination but I wanted a quality 1911 with a relatively good price so I looked at Colt special combat government and was not impressed. After all my research and shopping around I went with a Dan Wesson Valor and the Colt is not as well made as the DW and have almost the same price, Colt is a very significant part of American firearms history but in the end it is a company and today's Colt like others have mention is living on their name.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I know Colt has always been held in fairly high esteem by the AR aficionados, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were a great product. I was mainly referring to the Colt rifles of the 1990's. Non Mil-Spec parts, and lower pins of a different size than anyone else, sear blocks, bolt carrier group. The fact that they seemed to magically come out with a rifle, before the AWB, minus a bayonet lug, made some speculate they were in "bed" with the Govt. and knew full well of the up coming AWB. I felt in the 1990's that Bushmaster made a better rifle than Colt did, in that same time period.

I don't think it's fair to hold the Clinton ban era against Colt.