Cold Weather Firearm Reliability Testing

[Squid556]

Recently I saw a test with cold weather reliability and was interested with the results.

Cold Weather Gun Testing : Cleanliness & Lubrication | Kit Badger

In this episode, Ivan Loomis discusses an experiment, examines the condition of a firearm, and talks about the test guns, including the 300 Blackout and Sons of Liberty Gun Works, a Griffin Armament Mark 2 and other guns like the Fake dissipator by Primary Arms, polymer lower with Geissele...

kitbadger.com

Rarely do I shoot below 30 So it inspired me to do a test of my own on this 5 degree day.

I keep my firearms religiously clean and always maintain a layer of lubrication. To make things more interesting , I was able to shoot with a friend who does the opposite of me.

We set out with an assortment of semi autos; 4 different configurations of AR15, one AR10, a Yugo AK, 2 different Glock handguns, and even my finicky 10/22.



Two of my builds above use gas ports close to the muzzle and I was suspecting I might see malfunctions in the 5 degree weather. Top to bottom are 18” rifle length , 16” carbine length , and finally a 14.5” mid length.



Ammunition used was nothing fancy. Just some Wolf steel case, average power hand loads, and some nice Fiocchi 9mm. I didn’t opt for ammo that was extra power or anything. Just what I would normally shoot.



To stack the odds more, magazines were chosen that I thought might give the most issues with cold. Old weak AR mags, weak Korean Glock mag, and a really stiff Magpul Glock mag.



We set out in the 5 degree weather with heavy clothing which brought about in interesting training scenario I rarely encounter. Every action became very difficult to execute. Made me glad I loaded mags at home!

As the range session went on over a couple hours I was surprised to see how well everything ran. Summary is as follows…

Glocks, dirty / clean… 100%
18” rifle clean AR… 100%
16” carbine clean AR…. 100%
16” carbine dirty AR… 95%
14.5” mid length clean AR… 100%
Yugo dirty AK… 100%
LaRue dirty AR10 100%
10/22 clean… 95%

The 16” dirty AR experienced a failure to fire which we attributed to its excessively dirty chamber due to a 22 conversion kit. Round was ejected just fine and the rifle kept goin. The dirty chamber did make some interesting looking brass which I failed to photograph.

The 10/22 experienced a failure to feed, which I attribute to a weak aftermarket magazine. It does that occasionally in the warm too so hard to attribute cold for that failure.

This was as much a test of my lubrication as well.

I like thicker lube and I know for a fact that heavy oil / grease in weather cold enough can get hard to move. My old man got me started on this general purpose lubricant a long time ago and I’ve come to appreciate it. Moderate weight, doesn’t move around and find its way into places it shouldn’t. Stays wet looking for about a year.

Another unforeseen takeaway was that in heavy clothing….the AK is nicer to use than an AR. Its sights, trigger, bolt, and safety all seem to be more natural when you’re bundled up.

In summary.. kit badgers test was done 10 degrees colder than mine and had far more malfunctions. 5 degrees sure felt cold for us….. but apparently I haven’t personally found the threshold yet where stuff stops moving, either dirty or clean.

What’s your experience having firearms stop working in the cold?

 

[lrdudley]

I'm sure my firearms would work fine in the cold, but my body refuses to try your tests. Not sure my gloved fingers would fit into the trigger guard.

 

[rosejm]

Personally, I find similar results to yours. Firearms work fine, but it's the change in gear that affects things the most. Not necessarily a stoppage, but requires a different approach - heavy coat, multiple layers, gloves, etc...

Now I have seen more than one person have issues with what I must assume is lubrication. First, maybe second round fails to go into battery, but works fine until the next string of fire.

Did you have any troubles with electronics / battery performance? That seems to be the second most common failure point, where either the batteries or the LEDs are outside their operating temps.

 

[Squid556]

Personally, I find similar results to yours. Firearms work fine, but it's the change in gear that affects things the most. Not necessarily a stoppage, but requires a different approach - heavy coat, multiple layers, gloves, etc...

Now I have seen more than one person have issues with what I must assume is lubrication. First, maybe second round fails to go into battery, but works fine until the next string of fire.

Did you have any troubles with electronics / battery performance? That seems to be the second most common failure point, where either the batteries or the LEDs are outside their operating temps.

You make a good point. I didn’t even bring my LCP out there because I knew I would run into trouble with gloves.

The holosun and streamlight ran fine but I change batteries every year. Electronic muffs worked fine.

Even L3 was running into issues on their EO tech sights when used in extreme cold. So I’m right there with you on expecting more electronic failure than mechanical.

 

[Bugzilla]

Why didn’t you do the test one or two days ago when it was -8 F? Asking for a friend!!

 

[cosermann]

If one is interested in precision fire, re-zeroing every 20 deg change in temperature is a good idea also.

 

[Squid556]

Why didn’t you do the test one or two days ago when it was -8 F? Asking for a friend!!

Wish I had thought to. I’d like to do it colder when I get the chance.

 

[Brad69]

I cold weather shorten your stock it will help.
The AR platform has a hinged trigger guard for mittens and heavy gloves.

 

[1nderbeard]

Just guessing, but I would guess unless you're in Alaska or somewhere N of the arctic circle cold weather is not a pressing issue. You'll likely freeze and stop working before your firearms.

You probably benefit more from finding out your personal endurance for cold. Seemed like all your stuff performed normally based on your brief.

 

[DadSmith]

Why didn’t you do the test one or two days ago when it was -8 F? Asking for a friend!!

Don't worry he'll have another chance at it Friday. Nice wind around 17mph will drop the temp with windchill down to 4. Now I noticed he's up north so probably a few degrees cooler, and more wind.

Hey @Squid556 what are your AR 15 builds made from parts wise?

On the 10/22 mine ran well until I had over 10k rounds through it. I got an XP recoil spring, new ruger firing pin, a fancy titanium alloy claw extractor, and while I had it apart I took IIRC 6000grit wet dry sand paper, and sanded the bolt, and the inside of the receiver, and anything else that looked or felt gritty. It's very smooth now, and man it runs better than it ever has in the past.

 

[model1994]

most of my more complex guns are old .22s, and I’ve hunted with them all in cold temps and poor conditions with a variety of ammo. thankfully I’ve yet to have something fail aside from a shotgun action freezing up in sleeting rain.

what’s most interesting to me about cold weather shooting is how it affects myself and my behavior with the gun. when gripping cold metal actions or stocks with no checkering, you start appreciating different aspects of firearm design. gloves and such then add a whole new layer

 

[Squid556]

Don't worry he'll have another chance at it Friday. Nice wind around 17mph will drop the temp with windchill down to 4. Now I noticed he's up north so probably a few degrees cooler, and more wind.

Hey @Squid556 what are your AR 15 builds made from parts wise?

On the 10/22 mine ran well until I had over 10k rounds through it. I got an XP recoil spring, new ruger firing pin, a fancy titanium alloy claw extractor, and while I had it apart I took IIRC 6000grit wet dry sand paper, and sanded the bolt, and the inside of the receiver, and anything else that looked or felt gritty. It's very smooth now, and man it runs better than it ever has in the past.

Not looking forward to more wind! We are close enough to lake Michigan to see some of the lake effect weather. If I get another opportunity to shoot below zero I will. Its fun to try new things and push the limits.

The 18" is a black hole weaponry barrel sold by surplus arms and ammo. Milspec carrier and rifle length buffer.

The 14.5" is a faxon gunner barrel, RTB lightweight carrier and its using a strike industries spring w/ standard buffer

And the 16" carbine that looks like an m16 is kind of a bastard creation of mine. Budget build. Bear creek govt barrel, NIB hand me down carrier, no name upper I got from the ingo garage sale, and carbine buffer.

 

[BravoOneFour]

Garand Thumb has an unrivaled cold test on youtube

 

[92FSTech]

I was out shooting Tuesday afternoon when it was 2 degrees out, with wind chill of -17. Everything ran fine, but my fingers hated me even in gloves. I've shot in that and colder plenty of times in the past, and the only time I've had an issue was with my Springfield EMP 4 in really cold weather (it was a few years ago, but IIRC it was like -18 with wind chill). I'd last cleaned it with a buddy and used some fancy Lucas Oil gun lube that he had. That stuff thickened up in the cold and slowed the slide down to the point that it wouldn't cycle reliably...but that gun was also pretty tight to start with. I've never used that stuff again, though.

Last year I did a rifle class for a week in February. We had everything from single digits to freezing rain during that week, shot a ton of rounds from all manner of positions, and my M400 didn't miss a beat. Neither did my P320, or the arguably "cheap" Sig optics on both of them. I knocked ice off of that rifle during that class, and soaked my open-emitter pistol optic. They got dragged through mud, broken glass, snow, you name it...no issues. I saw a number of other guns have problems during that class, though.

A quality firearm that's properly maintained should not have issues running in the cold. Now, if you're going to leave it outside to freeze up in a snowdrift overnight, that might be a different story, but if the gun is on your person and you're able to survive the conditions, the gun should as well.

I like your point about how other gear impacts your shooting in cold conditions. Personally, I think that's a bigger factor than the gun itself. It seems like every time I have to get the rifle out "for real" it involves standing around in the freezing cold for hours. There have been a few times when we've gotten done with what we're doing and my hands were so cold I could barely manipulate the gun to put it back to "cruiser ready", which really makes me question my ability to take an accurate shot if needed under those conditions. I've made some changes to my gear as a result.

Head gear that will keep your ears warm, but not interfere with your comms equipment.

A good coat that allows easy access to your sidearm in whatever manner you are carrying it.

Rain gear to do the same (I still haven't found a great solution for this, and I still get wet).

Covid and all the stupid masking requirements had one positive outcome...it taught me about wool neck gaiters, and I now keep one of those handy when it's really cold out instead of a scarf because it stays in place, offers less for someone to grab, and you can pull it up over your face and ears if it gets too cold. If you don't want to deal with something like that at all, a nice tight turtleneck undershirt to keep the cold air from blowing down your neck is a decent substitute.

Quality warm gloves that aren't too bulky are important. I recently discovered the Mechanix Insulated gloves. I'd been using the regular Mechanix for years, but the standard ones don't do anything for warmth apart from blocking the wind. The insulated ones are pretty good in that regard while not being too bulky. I can still do everything I need to do with my guns, including loading mags (not ideal, but it can be done), and keep my fingers warm at the same time. I'd make sure whatever gloves you select will fit inside your trigger guard and allow you to manipulate the other controls, and practice with them at the range to make sure they work for you and your setup.

 

[Squid556]

I was out shooting Tuesday afternoon when it was 2 degrees out, with wind chill of -17. Everything ran fine, but my fingers hated me even in gloves. I've shot in that and colder plenty of times in the past, and the only time I've had an issue was with my Springfield EMP 4 in really cold weather (it was a few years ago, but IIRC it was like -18 with wind chill). I'd last cleaned it with a buddy and used some fancy Lucas Oil gun lube that he had. That stuff thickened up in the cold and slowed the slide down to the point that it wouldn't cycle reliably...but that gun was also pretty tight to start with. I've never used that stuff again, though.

Last year I did a rifle class for a week in February. We had everything from single digits to freezing rain during that week, shot a ton of rounds from all manner of positions, and my M400 didn't miss a beat. Neither did my P320, or the arguably "cheap" Sig optics on both of them. I knocked ice off of that rifle during that class, and soaked my open-emitter pistol optic. They got dragged through mud, broken glass, snow, you name it...no issues. I saw a number of other guns have problems during that class, though.

A quality firearm that's properly maintained should not have issues running in the cold. Now, if you're going to leave it outside to freeze up in a snowdrift overnight, that might be a different story, but if the gun is on your person and you're able to survive the conditions, the gun should as well.

I like your point about how other gear impacts your shooting in cold conditions. Personally, I think that's a bigger factor than the gun itself. It seems like every time I have to get the rifle out "for real" it involves standing around in the freezing cold for hours. There have been a few times when we've gotten done with what we're doing and my hands were so cold I could barely manipulate the gun to put it back to "cruiser ready", which really makes me question my ability to take an accurate shot if needed under those conditions. I've made some changes to my gear as a result.

Head gear that will keep your ears warm, but not interfere with your comms equipment.

A good coat that allows easy access to your sidearm in whatever manner you are carrying it.

Rain gear to do the same (I still haven't found a great solution for this, and I still get wet).

Covid and all the stupid masking requirements had one positive outcome...it taught me about wool neck gaiters, and I now keep one of those handy when it's really cold out instead of a scarf because it stays in place, offers less for someone to grab, and you can pull it up over your face and ears if it gets too cold. If you don't want to deal with something like that at all, a nice tight turtleneck undershirt to keep the cold air from blowing down your neck is a decent substitute.

Quality warm gloves that aren't too bulky are important. I recently discovered the Mechanix Insulated gloves. I'd been using the regular Mechanix for years, but the standard ones don't do anything for warmth apart from blocking the wind. The insulated ones are pretty good in that regard while not being too bulky. I can still do everything I need to do with my guns, including loading mags (not ideal, but it can be done), and keep my fingers warm at the same time. I'd make sure whatever gloves you select will fit inside your trigger guard and allow you to manipulate the other controls, and practice with them at the range to make sure they work for you and your setup.

Now that’s the kind of info I was fishin for! Thanks

Out of curiosity what firearms / malfunctions did you see at that class?

 

[92FSTech]

Out of curiosity what firearms / malfunctions did you see at that class?

All of the issues I remember were with suppressed DI ARs. I don't know if the conditions were even a factor...I only saw them at the class so they might have had issues to start with. My suspicion is that they were improperly gassed, marginal under ideal conditions, and what we were dealing with pushed them over the edge. There was a suppressed LWRC piston gun that did fine. I don't remember any of us with unsuppressed rifles having any problems, either...if there were it was very few.

There was one group in particular that weren't even making it through a mag without a malfunction. It wasn't improper maintenance, either, because those guys were breaking them down and cleaning/lubing every break we got. I felt kinda bad for them because they didn't get to pick their setup, it was issued and they just had to deal with it. They fought with those guns all week.