Christians lets discuss something....

[Fletch]

Interesting conversation... nice and civil.

There's a reason for that: no matter their research, no matter their knowledge, everybody in the conversation has to admit that they don't know the mind of God.

 

[deer hunter]

am I in fact decieved and therefore one of the antichrists?

You cannot be antichrist if you have truly accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior and been baptized for the remission of sins, which is an outward symbol of an inner work in your life.


I have to disagree that you have to be baptized to be saved. That would fall under a works religion. If we have to do anything other than accept the gift of Jesus' death on a cross, his shed blood for our sins, his victory over death, and then the grace that was extended to each one of us, as Paul preached, then it wouldn't be a gift. When we accept that gift of grace we are then baptized with the Holy Spirit and His Spirit lives in us. There is nothing wrong with water baptism as an outward sign but it is not needed to be save.

 

[edsinger]

I don't believe Satan has the ability to incarnate himself in a man(read, satan himself doing what the Eternal Spirit did in Mary's womb---making himself a new creation), as The Creator did.

I believe that Satan will possess a man, a willing human. They have done this before. It is all in what powers are available to and Arc Angel.

Be careful labeling anything as a solid 'this' or 'that'. No one knows completely, or even with complete understanding. The prophets of old were killed by men, not satan himself; consider that.

Agreed, yet we have his Word...it should not all be guesswork but in the spirit of what you said, you are correct. We must be VERY careful n that regard.

Interesting conversation... nice and civil.

 

[edsinger]

It's fun to guess but He tells us knowone knows.

Ah that is true indeed but as you will see from your own post there is more to the story...

The Day and Hour Unknown

Matthew 24

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

This is HUGELY important. You can not know the day nor the hour..True. But read on...

"as in the days of Noah" so shall the coming of the Son of Man be..


Precisely my point. Ask yourself just what was going on in the 'days of Noah'?

I believe through my research that I have a good idea what was going on and just why God wiped out mankind. Genesis is fairly vague on details but other books give more clues.

Genetic manipulation was existent at this time. How you ask? Well it comes to a word that was left in some versions of the Bibles today. Nephilim.

This is a whole other subject, but to keep it short, these 'Nephilim' also known as 'men of old ,men of renown', were not I believe a creation of God but a spawn of the purest evil. Legends from all cultures tell of these beings. From Nimrod to Quezechetel to Hercules.

The Bloodline of man was corrupted, except for Noah and his few. It was time to wipe them all out.....and so God did. But, the Nephilim were on earth AFTERWARD also....how you ask? This process continues yet to this day...

42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

He tells us to watch and be keen of what is going on. We can and do not know the hour, we must not date..but we MUST know the season!

 

[edsinger]

There's a reason for that: no matter their research, no matter their knowledge, everybody in the conversation has to admit that they don't know the mind of God.

This is so true, but he did not leave us ignorant. He gave us His Word.

am I in fact decieved and therefore one of the antichrists?

You cannot be antichrist if you have truly accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior and been baptized for the remission of sins, which is an outward symbol of an inner work in your life.

I have to disagree that you have to be baptized to be saved. That would fall under a works religion.

In my opinoin Baptism is NOT a requirement of salvation. This is a hot subject and causes issues but then if one believes that it is, then you ask well just what 'type' of baptism counts and it leads down a path that does no good for God's work.

 

[mettle]

There's a reason for that: no matter their research, no matter their knowledge, everybody in the conversation has to admit that they don't know the mind of God.

Be careful, general statements about everyone, coming from one perspective can make one look foolish sometimes.

 

[mettle]

This is so true, but he did not leave us ignorant. He gave us His Word.
















In my opinoin Baptism is NOT a requirement of salvation. This is a hot subject and causes issues but then if one believes that it is, then you ask well just what 'type' of baptism counts and it leads down a path that does no good for God's work.

Then I am done talking with you. Read Acts 2:38. The Apostle Peter demanded of the crowd that baptism in Jesus name IS for the remission of sins.
( You also might want to check out WHY John the Baptist was baptizing in the Jordan river, CHRIST was baptized; b/c it was the order of things and He was willing to submit to it)

If you can deny that, then you can deny anything.

hmmmm, let's start picking what we want to accept and submit ourselves too... well, I'll take out the 'one wife' part; that way, I can have multiple wives for some serious fun.

So much for good conversation. We're talking with a guy who hasn't even accepted God's order of things for the identification of Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

But, that is to be expected I guess.

So much for this thread... cya whow.

 

[deer hunter]

Then I am done talking with you. Read Acts 2:38. The Apostle Peter demanded of the crowd that baptism in Jesus name IS for the remission of sins.
( You also might want to check out WHY John the Baptist was baptizing in the Jordan river, CHRIST was baptized; b/c it was the order of things and He was willing to submit to it)

If you can deny that, then you can deny anything.

hmmmm, let's start picking what we want to accept and submit ourselves too... well, I'll take out the 'one wife' part; that way, I can have multiple wives for some serious fun.

So much for good conversation. We're talking with a guy who hasn't even accepted God's order of things for the identification of Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

But, that is to be expected I guess.

So much for this thread... cya whow.

Not sure why you are so upset. We may have different views but that is why we are discussing this topic. Peter was talking to the Jews who were under the law. Even Jesus followed the law and preached only to the Jews, His chosen people. Paul preached of grace to the gentiles. No where did he say that you have to be baptized by water to be saved. It is only by believing that all of us have sinned, and that Christ died for our sins, His blood erased our sins, and then He rose from the dead. All wee have to do is accept that gift. If we start adding things on like you also have to be baptized, go to church every Sunday, or whatever then Grace would not be a gift.

 

[bigg cheese]

 

[theweakerbrother]

But Jesus did preach at least to one Gentile:

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Mark 7:25-30;

&

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Matthew 15:21-28;

The Syro-Phoenician woman was definitely a Gentile.

Jesus did preach to the Samaritan(s) woman-at-the-well. The Samaritans were neither Jewish Orthodox nor were they Gentiles.

 

[deer hunter]

But Jesus did preach at least to one Gentile:

BibleGateway.com - Passage*Lookup: Mark 7:25-30;

&

BibleGateway.com - Passage*Lookup: Matthew 15:21-28;

The Syro-Phoenician woman was definitely a Gentile.

Jesus did preach to the Samaritan(s) woman-at-the-well. The Samaritans were neither Jewish Orthodox nor were they Gentiles.

Yes, there were a couple of occasions that Jesus ministered to others, but as in Matthew 15:24 he said

24But He answered and said, "I was sent only to (F)the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

 

[Fletch]

There's a reason for that: no matter their research, no matter their knowledge, everybody in the conversation has to admit that they don't know the mind of God.

Be careful, general statements about everyone, coming from one perspective can make one look foolish sometimes.

I'm pretty confident in this one.

It is the heretic that makes the fire,
Not she which burns in't
-- Shakespeare

 

[jblomenberg16]

This is so true, but he did not leave us ignorant. He gave us His Word.



In my opinoin Baptism is NOT a requirement of salvation. This is a hot subject and causes issues but then if one believes that it is, then you ask well just what 'type' of baptism counts and it leads down a path that does no good for God's work.

Baptism by water, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. All that you need.

Moving a bit deeper, Baptism is in many respects a symbolic washing / cleansing, but is a confession of faith - i.e. acceptance of Jesus. There is a very good hymn Baptized into Your Name, Most Holy that is a good description of the importance of this Sacriment.

Be it as an infant, child, or adult, this seemingly insignificant event is very signficant.

I will agree that it is not a 100% absolute in terms of salvation, but is something very serious, and important to do as a Christian, even if not decided on one's own accord, as when babies are baptized.

 

[edsinger]

Then I am done talking with you. Read Acts 2:38. The Apostle Peter demanded of the crowd that baptism in Jesus name IS for the remission of sins.
( You also might want to check out WHY John the Baptist was baptizing in the Jordan river, CHRIST was baptized; b/c it was the order of things and He was willing to submit to it)

If you can deny that, then you can deny anything.

So then Christ lied on the cross to the thief next to him when he said He would see him in Paradise that very day. Last I remember the thief was not baptized.

Do we need it for salvation? No, but it is a sacrament as is communion. It is a statement and also an invitation for the Holy Spirit....

Its a great thing, but not a requirement. If you think it is, which one counts? Only total submersion? Sprinkle?

All wee have to do is accept that gift. If we start adding things on like you also have to be baptized, go to church every Sunday, or whatever then Grace would not be a gift.

Couldnt have said it better.......

 

[edsinger]

Sorry if I made some of you angry. It was not my intent but I am passionate about this subject......Please accept my apologies...

 

[1946]

Thanks to all who have participated thus far in this thread. You have answered a lot of questions that I have had, and have given me some new information to think about and research. May God bless all of you for you for your bold and spirited conversation (no pun intended).

 

[Rudy]

So then Christ lied on the cross to the thief next to him when he said He would see him in Paradise that very day. Last I remember the thief was not baptized.

Do we need it for salvation? No, but it is a sacrament as is communion. It is a statement and also an invitation for the Holy Spirit....

Its a great thing, but not a requirement. If you think it is, which one counts? Only total submersion? Sprinkle?









Couldnt have said it better.......

The New Covenant was not into effect at the cross. The beginning of the church age starts in the Book of Acts. The early church knows of no other baptism but in the name of Jesus---> Acts 2:38.

 

[mudwater]

I debated whether or not to join in this thread. Well here it goes.
First there are a number of things that are now possible to have a number of the prophecies happen.

The 200 million man army. Only recently could such a force be assembled. China by itself may be able to do this.

The mark of the beast. With money being mostly electronic now, does it not make sense to do this? No worry about loosing your Credit/Debit card.
No chance of identity theft if the number is actually on your body. The Amish do not get Social Security numbers partially because of this. Most of (in the US) are numbered now. It is not physically on us now.

World wide communication. World wide commerce. When Babylon falls the whole world saw the smoke of her burning. The whole world traded with her and weep at her falling.

Babylon has always been a physical place. It is located in Iraq. We all know there is alot going on there now. I would agree that the US has little to do with the "end times". We are mostly not a sons of Abraham. I know I am a "dog that eats the scraps that falls from the masters table".

There have been quite a few people along the years to claim knowing specifics about the end events. Jesus only knew the "signs of the times"

Just my two cents

 

[Rudy]

mudwater, are you a student of Irvin Baxter?

 

[haldir]

The New Covenant was not into effect at the cross. The beginning of the church age starts in the Book of Acts. The early church knows of no other baptism but in the name of Jesus---> Acts 2:38.

Let's go to Acts 16:30 then. The prison warden asks Paul and Silas what he had to do to be saved. They said believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved and all your house. They didn't say he had to be baptized first. After he believed and was saved they then baptized him and all his house. This would seem to indicate that baptism is something we are commanded to do but it isn't the source of our salvation. Additionally it would seem that the act of baptism would be a work and not faith, of course we are also told not by works but by faith alone are we saved.

This brings up something else that as a former Baptist I struggled with. Why was everyone in the household baptized. I can't believe everyone had a conversion experience. Are we to believe that all of his house, slaves, children, made a considered profession of faith before they were baptized. That would seem unlikely. If not, the Paul and Silas baptized the whole household as a symbol that this was now a Christian household. Like I said I struggled with this when I became Presbyterian that they baptized children. But it seems to be in keeping with what Paul and Silas did here.