Centerfire rifles using handgun cartridges not allowed for state or public deer

[ru44mag]

Ind. Code Ann. § 14-22-2-8. If you google this you will not find any official government documents stating what the forums are saying. The post everyone is referring to is an unofficial news document. It appears there is so much misinformation, even the officials are confused, and giving wrong information in the question and answer part of an official government document. I am not an expert, but I definitely see there is so much conflicting information out there, I don't know how a judge would not throw it out of his/her court.

 

[craigkim]

So, on the subject, I took this out of the guide.
Handguns, other than muzzleloading
handguns, must have a barrel at least 4 inches
long and mustfire a bullet of .243-inch diam
-
eter or larger. The handgun cartridge case,
without the bullet, must be at least 1.16 inches
long. There is no maximum cartridge length
for those used in handguns. Full metal-jack
-
eted bullets are not permitted. The handgun
must not be a rifle that has a barrel less than
18 inches. (A rifle with a barrel less than 18
inches is not considered a handgun.

Has this changed too? I hunt on private land, but what are they targeting with that last sentence? I don't remember it before and what is the significance of 18"? I get that an SBR is not a handgun, but are they trying to do away with the AR handguns?

 

[ru44mag]

So, Private Property, we are Good to Go .....

What about ammo limits, on P P ?????

If I carry my Marlin .44 Mag., and my RSBH, I have loaded 16 rounds TOTAL .....

I am NOT allowed to carry any extra ?????

The 10 round rule was intended for high powered rifles initially. But who really knows now?

 

[BravoMike]

House Enrolled Act 1415 that was passed earlier this year by the Indiana General Assembly (state legislators) and signed by the Governor allows some additional rifle cartridges to be used on private land during the deer firearms season, but removed the ability for any rifle to be used on public land for deer hunting.

All the cartridges that were legal in recent years are legal now only on private land, even though the DNR has allowed them in years past on public land.

I think the DNR revised their website after becoming aware of this issue and have not revised the entire website. You can call the local DNR office too.

 

[ru44mag]

So, on the subject, I took this out of the guide.
Handguns, other than muzzleloading
handguns, must have a barrel at least 4 inches
long and mustfire a bullet of .243-inch diam
-
eter or larger. The handgun cartridge case,
without the bullet, must be at least 1.16 inches
long. There is no maximum cartridge length
for those used in handguns. Full metal-jack
-
eted bullets are not permitted. The handgun
must not be a rifle that has a barrel less than
18 inches. (A rifle with a barrel less than 18
inches is not considered a handgun.

Has this changed too? I hunt on private land, but what are they targeting with that last sentence? I don't remember it before and what is the significance of 18"? I get that an SBR is not a handgun, but are they trying to do away with the AR handguns?

LOL!!! That must be new. And it doesn't make any sense. "The handgun must not be a rifle!" Who is writing this stuff?!?

 

[ru44mag]

I think the DNR revised their website after becoming aware of this issue and have not revised the entire website. You can call the local DNR office too.

I give up. It doesn't even apply to me. I'm going to eat some lunch. The government will probably figure it out...never.

But again, I don't know how a judge would not throw it out of his/her court.

 

[HoughMade]

I never said anything about whether this law would be enforced. I have no crystal ball. This confusion is a good defense argument, though.

the statute, however, is clear- rifles on private land only.

 

[snapping turtle]

Hmmm sounds like DNR did a better job before the state house got involved in the system. The terms used before were vague now just downright utterly confusing. Growing up there was no "interwebs" so the fish and game regulations booklet was always considered the Bible. If a lawyer was interested in getting someone off from an illegal firearm use charge seems prior precedents could be used against the state very easy. The poor hunter in the meantime looses his truck and gun. Maybe gets them back.

 

[SSGSAD]

The 10 round rule was intended for high powered rifles initially. But who really knows now?

That, is why I was asking .....

 

[HoughMade]

The 10 round rule was intended for high powered rifles initially. But who really knows now?

Well....I do.

Unless there is another statute or regulation that applies to handgun-caliber rifles, the statute I quoted above says- no more than 10 rounds.

 

[ru44mag]

Well....I do.

Unless there is another statute or regulation that applies to handgun-caliber rifles, the statute I quoted above says- no more than 10 rounds.

I can't find a source for your statute. Most hunters will be going by the regulations the DNR posted. If they have the regulations with them no officer will be able to refute them. Worst case scenario is a ticket to appear before a judge. With evidence in hand, presented to the judge, it will be thrown out. If you look at the regulations I posted, you will clearly read that the 10 round thing applies only to high powered rifles. It just takes a little time and effort to read. It is very clear. You don't know.

 

[ru44mag]

So, Private Property, we are Good to Go .....

What about ammo limits, on P P ?????

If I carry my Marlin .44 Mag., and my RSBH, I have loaded 16 rounds TOTAL .....


I am NOT allowed to carry any extra ?????

If you look at the regulations, you will see that center fired rifle and high powered rifle are separated. This is where the confusion begins. You and I know that both are center fired. The legislators don't understand this. They clearly designate the "High powered rifle as the one that you can only have 10 rounds with. When they state rifles on private land only, they left out 2 words. "High powered." Hopefully they fix the problem for 2018. For this year, just carry your DNR regulations with you to be safe.

 

[HoughMade]

I can't find a source for your statute. Most hunters will be going by the regulations the DNR posted. If they have the regulations with them no officer will be able to refute them. Worst case scenario is a ticket to appear before a judge. With evidence in hand, presented to the judge, it will be thrown out. If you look at the regulations I posted, you will clearly read that the 10 round thing applies only to high powered rifles. It just takes a little time and effort to read. It is very clear. You don't know.

I saw what you posted. I agree that the statute I posted is unlikely to be enforced, but I wouldn't guarantee it. Whatever the DNR writes and publishes in interesting and could be used to defense a violation of the law, but the statute sets the law, not the DNR publication.

I have a smidge of experience in these types of things.

 

[snapping turtle]

Well here is the issue.

one: My shoulder does not like high power sabot slug guns any longer. When the PCR rifles became legal I sold off the 12 gauge barrel for sabots. Still have my smooth bore barrels and can use the old pumpkin ball or foster slugs and the brenneke style slugs fine but will miss the accuracy of the sabots but the shoulder won't miss them. So buy a rifled slug gun again? Or just go with one of the newer 330-350 FPS crossbows and open up for other seasons of use.

TWO: last year I was basically run down in a field on private land by DNR. Basic stuff. Tag talk gun check then asked to unload the mag. 8 rounds of 44 mag. I asked the DNR guy (young guy) Then 10 round limit does not apply to PCR rifles correct? He said he did not know as it was a grey area in the law. The asked if I had a 44 mag handgun would it still be 10 rounds? He said good question. He said it could depend on how you answered what the gun was for. Personal protection or hunting. He was a nice kid but his answers seemed to make little sense and he was very vague in his answers.

Three: seems you could still use a 30-06 308 35 rem ect in a contender handgun on state property in say an encore pistol on state land and still be legal except for military or special draw hunts which have always forbid the use of them. A box of 20 308's with an encore pistol seems legal as it is not a rifle yet the same box of 20 is not legal if you have a rifle on private land. Legal box of 20. Illegal box of 20. Same hunt heck same gun frame just a different barrel and a different stock.

 

[ru44mag]

I saw what you posted. I agree that the statute I posted is unlikely to be enforced, but I wouldn't guarantee it. Whatever the DNR writes and publishes in interesting and could be used to defense a violation of the law, but the statute sets the law, not the DNR publication.

I have a smidge of experience in these types of things.

How does your average corn fed hick like myself look up statutes. I tried to go to in.gov. I even used all the numbers. I read several things, but still felt I was not getting the whole picture. But even more importantly, I know the people writing it did not get the whole picture. Also, they split center fired rifles from high powered rifles, and from everything I read, I still believe everything stated is implied towards the "high powered rifle." Clear it is not.

 

[HoughMade]

How does your average corn fed hick like myself look up statutes. I tried to go to in.gov. I even used all the numbers. I read several things, but still felt I was not getting the whole picture. But even more importantly, I know the people writing it did not get the whole picture. Also, they split center fired rifles from high powered rifles, and from everything I read, I still believe everything stated is implied towards the "high powered rifle." Clear it is not.

It's all on in.gov, but hard to find unless you already know it's there. I have Westlaw that makes this very simple.

It's clear to me that this was a mistake. I do not believe that they intended to outlaw pistol-caliber rifles on public land. It makes no sense. However, these mistakes do happen. I believe that it will be corrected in the next session of the General Assembly, but for now there is a "technical" law that likely will not be enforced, but you never know.

 

[Ggreen]

How does your average corn fed hick like myself look up statutes. I tried to go to in.gov. I even used all the numbers. I read several things, but still felt I was not getting the whole picture. But even more importantly, I know the people writing it did not get the whole picture. Also, they split center fired rifles from high powered rifles, and from everything I read, I still believe everything stated is implied towards the "high powered rifle." Clear it is not.

That is the problem. We have been taught from day one in hunters ed to refer to the hunting guide for the year, this years is fubar. The guide has a disclaimer that refers back to the Indiana Code as the ruling regulation which is how they could potentially barb you in front of a judge. This is a mess and it should have been addressed publicly from the day they found the discrepancy in the code vs. the guide. It has been completely mishandled by all levels of the DNR. It may not be their fault the mistake was written into code, but their **** poor dissemination of the proper information is what could land a lot of innocent hunters in court, facing citations, out money invested in gear/ammo, forfeiture of a deer, or a ticket. They could slam the book down on someone if the officer felt so inclined.

 

[ru44mag]

It's all on in.gov, but hard to find unless you already know it's there. I have Westlaw that makes this very simple.

It's clear to me that this was a mistake. I do not believe that they intended to outlaw pistol-caliber rifles on public land. It makes no sense. However, these mistakes do happen. I believe that it will be corrected in the next session of the General Assembly, but for now there is a "technical" law that likely will not be enforced, but you never know.

Okay. I just got off the phone with a very nice DNR officer. You are right. I am wrong. What I was saying was what they had intended, but not the way it turned out. Just like last year, when it was .243 and .30 caliber only. The legislators screwed it up. They should have it fixed for 2018. The officers will take this into consideration in the field if someone is ignorant of the change, not if they know about it. The 10 round thing also got screwed up. It was supposed to be High powered only, but is for all rifles. I asked him about 10 rounds of 44 mag in my rifle and 6 rounds of 44 mag in the revolver. He said he thought that was okay if the 10 rounds were "designated" for the rifle and 6 for the revolver.

 

[ru44mag]

That is the problem. We have been taught from day one in hunters ed to refer to the hunting guide for the year, this years is fubar. The guide has a disclaimer that refers back to the Indiana Code as the ruling regulation which is how they could potentially barb you in front of a judge. This is a mess and it should have been addressed publicly from the day they found the discrepancy in the code vs. the guide. It has been completely mishandled by all levels of the DNR. It may not be their fault the mistake was written into code, but their **** poor dissemination of the proper information is what could land a lot of innocent hunters in court, facing citations, out money invested in gear/ammo, forfeiture of a deer, or a ticket. They could slam the book down on someone if the officer felt so inclined.

According to the DNR officer I just spoke to, the guides were printed before the law was in place. The DNR is attempting to educate the legislators and the people that ask. Fubar is right!

 

[bwframe]

... I agree that the statute I posted is unlikely to be enforced, but I wouldn't guarantee it...

Therein lies the problem. Asking a CO to make a field decision when every other info source says something different.

Maybe big media would prefer to see hunters get citations over this, but it's clearly not on their radar.

We are heathens to them.