CC question

[Michiana]

I think you are wrong on this one

That makes a difference, too. CYA is the main thing I was getting at. Knowing the person (and presumably, trusting them) goes far beyond a bill of sale. B

Verbal agreements and knowing the person you are dealing with will not help you one bit if you get arrested or sued and dragged into court because a gun you sold without any paperwork X years ago was involved in a shooting and you are being investigated.

 

[NateIU10]

Verbal agreements and knowing the person you are dealing with will not help you one bit if you get arrested or sued and dragged into court because a gun you sold without any paperwork X years ago was involved in a shooting and you are being investigated.

As the guns stolen from Hoosier Gun Coat demonstrates, the police ask the person who they bought the stolen guns from, he says he can't remember, Ernie's (Hoosier Gun Coat) SOL.

 

[4sarge]

Verbal agreements and knowing the person you are dealing with will not help you one bit if you get arrested or sued and dragged into court because a gun you sold without any paperwork X years ago was involved in a shooting and you are being investigated.

Michiana you currently hold an FFL and that places you in a completely different class when it comes to buying & selling firearms. I haven't any problem complying with the letter of the law but I'm also not going to make my own rules for legal transactions. Paperwork is Not currently required by non FFL's in Indiana and that is the letter of the law that I am following. But if you believe that a non binding piece of paper is going to magically protect you from an investigation or frivolous lawsuit then you are sadly mistaken. Until the law is changed and all transactions must be with a NICs verification then I will continue to transact legally under the current law.

Phony ID, or forged bill of sales can be obtained and hold no legal protection for the buyer or seller. If that piece of paper makes you feel better by all means require it but it is not the law

 

[Michiana]

It does make me feel better.

Michiana you currently hold an FFL and that places you in a completely different class when it comes to buying & selling firearms. I haven't any problem complying with the letter of the law but I'm also not going to make my own rules for legal transactions. Paperwork is Not currently required by non FFL's in Indiana and that is the letter of the law that I am following. But if you believe that a non binding piece of paper is going to magically protect you from an investigation or frivolous lawsuit then you are sadly mistaken. Until the law is changed and all transactions must be with a NICs verification then I will continue to transact legally under the current law.

Phony ID, or forged bill of sales can be obtained and hold no legal protection for the buyer or seller. If that piece of paper makes you feel better by all means require it but it is not the law

I am aware of the FFL rules and the personal transactions not needing a bill of sale but I would give one and expect one in return if I was selling anything of value as good business practice. Showing intent to do the right thing holds more water than ignoring paperwork. By law I can sell any personal firearm I have had in my possession more than one year before my license the same as any other citizen of the State. I still want to see some ID and proof of residency. People can have a forged ID and go through a NICS check with flying colors and fill out a 4471; all I can do is try my best to follow the law.

I have used a two copy commercial "Firearms bill of sale" book since 1997 and feel better doing so, therefore that is my policy. You are entitled to sell your firearms anyway you want and I wish you luck. There is no right or wrong way of doing this, just what suits the individuals. Again, we can agree to disagree.

Dick

 

[Scutter01]

I know this is off the OP's topic, but since we've drifted this way, I'll ask here. You can sell personal firearms without an FFL. At what point is an FFL required? Is there a certain number per month or per year before the BATF starts getting twitchy?

 

[NateIU10]

I know this is off the OP's topic, but since we've drifted this way, I'll ask here. You can sell personal firearms without an FFL. At what point is an FFL required? Is there a certain number per month or per year before the BATF starts getting twitchy?

Here you go, per 18USC44

(C) as applied to a dealer in fire-
arms, as defined in section
921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes
time, attention, and labor to dealing
in firearms as a regular course of
trade or business with the principal
objective of livelihood and profit
through the repetitive purchase and
resale of firearms, but such term
shall not include a person who
makes occasional sales, exchanges,
or purchases of firearms for the en-
hancement of a personal collection or
for a hobby, or who sells all or part of
his personal collection of firearms;

ETA: As with most BATFE rules/laws, it seems a bit subjective.

 

[Michiana]

FFL selling private firearms

I know this is off the OP's topic, but since we've drifted this way, I'll ask here. You can sell personal firearms without an FFL. At what point is an FFL required? Is there a certain number per month or per year before the BATF starts getting twitchy?

I called the BATF and the FBI and asked both the law regarding a FFL dealer selling private firearms and was told the following. Any firearm you had in your possession more than one year before you got your license you can sell the same as a regular resident. Any firearm you purchased less than a year before getting your license you need to enter in your book and go through the regular procedure including background check and the 4473 form to sell the firearm. I do not believe there is a number you can sell as you are selling as a private citizen.