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Carrying without a license (split from SCOTUS-McDonald)
- Thread starter ArmyMP
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Based on this, I fully expect you will soon get a visit from one of our friendly INGO LEOs... Or perhaps one of the many LEOs of other agencies who frequent our site without joining.
for posting ... you have ba..sYou see even if they do come and i do get arrested.. i will be bailed out... and then its on.. how do you think it will feel for the city county and state to be sued for violation of a "VETERANS" rights? just because something is the law does not make it right. I dont pick fights i might lose... i plan ahead.... I know which way the court leans and on what side of justice the would rule....
Justice Scalia has already set me up in a win win....
Justice Scalia has already set me up in a win win....
Assuming what you are typing are the facts.
1) Breaking the law is breaking the law even if you don't like the law and/or think it's unconstitutional
2) Posting about it on a public forum
3) A forum which has current and retired LEOs
WOW!!!
For the sake of your little one please, please go get your LTCH!
---
If you want to be the test case which from your other post it appears you do. Then I wish you luck and victory. I don't like the fact that we have to pay in IN for a piece of paper to carry would prefer we were like VT (anyone who can get a gun (ie under fed laws) can OC/CC. But until we can change the law we must continue to obey it.
So are you really planning on being a test case or just breaking the law? You said earlier you can't afford the license, have you lined up some organization to present your case?
Thanks Scutter, I thought I remembered this argument from somewhere.
IndyBeerman
Was a real life Beerman.....
You sir a hypocrite, and are no better than the thug/gang banger running around without a LTCH with a illegal handgun in your vehicle.
Your current right to bear arms granted to you end at your property line when you cross it with a handgun. If you want to carry a long gun or shotgun for protection, fine, so be it.
You being a veterans give you no more rights than me or the hoo hoo dancer down the street, being a veteran does give you respect from me, that is right up to the point of frivolously flaunting and admitting that you are breaking the law and throw in my face and others.
That's I'm done,
Fellow INGO'ers sorry for the rant and now back to our regularly scheduled thread
I am studying to be a lawyer; they are right. Case law is what determines whether you win or lose your case. The courts will follow the case law precedent, no matter how bad the precedent is, until the court feels bold enough to overturn it. Getting convicted and challenging it is not the best way to go through with getting the case law changed. You will be convicted of a felony; no matter how much I agree with your reasoning, you will be made an example of by the court.
The U.S. Constitution does state that no infringments shall be placed upon firearms. The 2nd Amendment only had control over the U.S. Government until the 14th Amendment. After the 14th Amendment, any restrictions placed upon firearms is unconstitutional. However, bad case law made by bench legislating judges and state legislatures has made it otherwise so.
The best way I recommend to get the law back to the Constitution is by following the examples of the progressives. The progressives understand that Americans will not give up their freedoms all at once, so they slowly, piece by piece, remove their freedoms. Americans need to learn from the progressives and give them a taste of their own medicine by reverting the law, piece by piece. It is working, the Washington D.C. gun ban was overturned and now it looks like the Chicago gun ban will be also. Listen to the Johnny Cash song "One Piece at a Time," this is how we need to get back to the Constitution.
The U.S. Constitution does state that no infringments shall be placed upon firearms. The 2nd Amendment only had control over the U.S. Government until the 14th Amendment. After the 14th Amendment, any restrictions placed upon firearms is unconstitutional. However, bad case law made by bench legislating judges and state legislatures has made it otherwise so.
The best way I recommend to get the law back to the Constitution is by following the examples of the progressives. The progressives understand that Americans will not give up their freedoms all at once, so they slowly, piece by piece, remove their freedoms. Americans need to learn from the progressives and give them a taste of their own medicine by reverting the law, piece by piece. It is working, the Washington D.C. gun ban was overturned and now it looks like the Chicago gun ban will be also. Listen to the Johnny Cash song "One Piece at a Time," this is how we need to get back to the Constitution.
How so? I didnt have a permit to carry my handgun while I served in the army.... Did that make me a bad person? no... unless you are saying all soldiers are gangbangers... You now have the second most asinine reasoning process I have seen on ingo.... I can carry my SKS, my AK or my mortar around, all of which could easily do more damage than 12 rounds of 40 caliber with no permit and thats acceptable.. But the moment i carry a pistol im a thug or a gangbanger.... lol.... Did you buy something called a "rock" near 21st and capital and smoke it?
Why not? Look at Rosa parks or martin luther king.
Look at the n30 Protest in Seattle
Look at LA in 1992
London Saturday March 31, 1990
Arthur McDuffie riots
Ulster Workers' Council strike
1971 May Day Protests
Singing Revolution
1989 Purple Rain Protest, and the Cape Town Peace March
Mohandas Karamchand Gandh
any major change in civil rights or status has always and will forever remain based on the actions of civil disobedience or outright riot... Any other way ends up in nickle and diming the issues at hand.
And its only a felony if I go into a no gun zone... if i get picked up on I65 or US 31 or else where its only a misdemeanor.....
Blue Tile Spook
Master
It's only my opinion, but as a veteran, we're supposed to set and carry on the example of what a proper person is supposed to be.
If you would like to be a test case, I can understand that. I don't understand CC'ing, waiting to be caught by a LEO and charged. That would be like me disagreeing with the current drug laws, driving around with a pound of marijuana in my car and saying that I want to be a test case. If you're concealing, I don't think that you really want to be a test case. If I'm concealing drugs in my car, I don't fully intend on being a test case, either.
One (of many) problems I see with your planned course of action is that we pride ourselves on being both peaceable and law-abiding, at least in most cases. I'll grant you that this method, if successful, has been effective in the past. I do not think it will be effective now, but I will take some small measure of comfort in the fact that when you are arrested, charged, and convicted, it will be one more person who did NOT hold an IN LTCH who will be listed as a criminal, albeit not a violent one. How soon does your NC permit expire? See, because if you get busted while that's still valid, you're still a permit holder.
Of note, I think the problem (or *A* problem) he has with you carrying a handgun (and IndyBeerMan, correct me if I'm mistaken) is that the law, as written, forbids the carry of a handgun without a license, but says nothing about a long gun, i.e. SKS/AK. If you possess a mortar, IIRC, that falls under ATF's jurisdiction as a "Destructive Device"... and since I'm not aware of too many places one could lawfully purchase such a thing, it might constitute theft of government property as well. This is not to be taken as an accusation; I do not know anything about your possession of that item, and while context would suggest otherwise, you might be talking about a mortar you had access to while still in the army.
Nonetheless, while I believe that the correct course of action is to fight the bad laws from within the law and within the system, you obviously believe otherwise and are determined to have yourself classified as a criminal. Might I suggest that you simply find a police officer somewhere outside of your home or business, away from some prohibited zone, and calmly walk up and announce to him that you are in violation of IC 35-47-2-1? That way, you can control whether you are charged with a misdemeanor or a felony and can get the process started.
I don't agree with your methods, but it appears your mind is made up and you wish not to be confused with the facts. Accordingly, I wish you luck in your endeavors and hope Bubba is nice to you.
Blessings,
Bill
no jail sentence for it down here..... il end up with probation and more room to right.... as long as the mortar is NFA registered no one can really say anything.... So I could in theory sit in a roof top parking garage downtown with a mortar.... Are you seeing the inequality with the law? Why is it that I need a permit for a little dinky 10 round handgun but not for a mortar? Which is more dangerous? Indiana's gun control is a a joke...
Hmm on another note wonder if welfare covers the cost of a handgun license... Wonder what kind of welfare office i would have to go to.....
and as far as it goes my NC permit is just a piece of paper... indiana doesnt recognize it since I am an Indiana citizen........ no reciprocity...... Mortars are actually easy... there is another INGO member that has one.....
You are correct that veterans are supposed to be upright citizens and models of society but what happens when the civilian normalcy is not what the constitution you specified describes?
Hmm on another note wonder if welfare covers the cost of a handgun license... Wonder what kind of welfare office i would have to go to.....
and as far as it goes my NC permit is just a piece of paper... indiana doesnt recognize it since I am an Indiana citizen........ no reciprocity...... Mortars are actually easy... there is another INGO member that has one.....
You are correct that veterans are supposed to be upright citizens and models of society but what happens when the civilian normalcy is not what the constitution you specified describes?
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You know, you're absolutely right. What were they thinking, all those lawyers who've reviewed and re-reviewed the law, discussed it, validated it, etc., etc.
What were we, the citizens of Indiana, thinking when we elected people that wrote laws NOT forbidding carry in banks, in churches, past signs with specific wording, in bars, in places of public gathering? What could have possessed them to write laws NOT requiring a "permit to purchase", a "permit to possess", or laws making the LTCH a "shall issue" item? No, they should have consulted the wise 25 year old former MP in crafting the laws.
I trust that purple text for the above is unnecessary.
You're right, Indiana's "gun control" is a joke... And at the moment, it would seem you are the punch line.
[STRIKE]None[/STRIKE]Few of us like the fact that a LTCH is required to carry a handgun lawfully unless otherwise excepted. We recognize the inequity and the conflict with "...shall not be infringed." Many/most of us cringe at the Bradyspeak (insert very nasal voice) "reasonable restrictions", but at the same time, we look at the idiotic "Brady grades" and see how much worse it could be. We see the violent crime statistics and see how brainless the Brady Bunch must be to think that their postulates would actually reduce crime..
On cost, sure, $125.00 is a hell of an initial outlay for a little pink piece of paper that is valid for the rest of your life, provided you don't become a felon or domestic abuser or abuser of alcohol or drugs, and while you live in Indiana. I had occasion to look up the law for a friend a few days ago, though, in TN. If/when he gets his TN carry permit, it will cost him $115, PLUS the cost of a class, and that is valid for only four years, at which time his new permit will cost him another $50. Florida costs $117 every few years, no price break for renewal, and Washington DC, now that they are finally granting permits again is still higher-exorbitantly so... IIRC, someone recently posted that the cost for a ONE year license there, after all the running around, the class(es?), the certifications, etc., etc. ran in excess of $800, plus the cost of the handgun itself, and ammo to feed it... and that is only to lawfully possess the thing IN THEIR HOME! They still do not allow carry outside!
Yes, requiring the LTCH is moronic, but IMHO, it would be far more wise to contact your reps and push (two years from now) for an "unlicensed open carry" bill, as many other states have done. No, not a new law, but a bill to repeal, or at least to change, the requirement. I would have no problem with the LTCH becoming, in effect, a CCW license provided that it did not require concealment and provided that OC was lawful without any government permitting.
Once you get arrested, though, that won't be your problem anymore. You'd probably qualify for the LTCH now, but once you have a conviction for a firearm-related offense, I think it far less likely.
Still, your choice. Choose wisely.
Blessings,
Bill
Forgot to address the mortar issue in the above post.
Yes, as long as it's registered. And you've paid the tax stamp.. $200, isn't it? Quite a fair measure more than the $125 for a LTCH, especially since as I understand it, each round you could fire from it also requires a tax stamp and another $200. Per round.
Lastly, your NC permit is not just a piece of paper. Like the tax stamp, it indicates that someone did a background check on you and verified that at the time they did it, you were a law-abiding citizen. No, you cannot use it to carry here while you reside in IN, but other than AK and VT (and possibly MT), is there any state that does not forbid concealed carry unless you have their permit/license? It's obviously a money issue; they all want their pound of flesh, but until we get the law changed, that's what we have.
Blessings,
Bill
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