Carrying without a license (split from SCOTUS-McDonald)

[ArmyMP]

So one thing I am getting off this in my interpretation and vision of how this will turn... i can be wrong... but If 2nd ammendment rights are incorporated and equal at the state and federal level does that mean a permit is not required? no where in the constitution does it require a permit or a good charecter check..... I find it morally wrong that there is a fee to exercise a right and if a cop doesnt like you do dont get to exercise it as well.

 

[17Chap]

So one thing I am getting off this in my interpretation and vision of how this will turn... i can be wrong... but If 2nd ammendment rights are incorporated and equal at the state and federal level does that mean a permit is not required? no where in the constitution does it require a permit or a good charecter check..... I find it morally wrong that there is a fee to exercise a right and if a cop doesnt like you do dont get to exercise it as well.

Most probably this ruling will be very narrow and only deal with outright bans. The Heller case has already spawned several suits designed to push back restrictive gun laws. This case, if favorable will add to that, There will probably be a couple decades of court cases to define the new law of the land. Bit by bit--Keep the faith.

Jess

 

[ArmyMP]

I found my bootstrap to challenge to poll tax on hadngun licenses and good charecter checks....

I love Justice Scalia

JUSTICE
SCALIA: What's the purpose of a State constitutional guarantee which has at the end of it "subject to such regulation as the legislature may proscribe," if that regulation includes banning it entirely? That -- that would make a nullity of the constitutional requirement.

 

[ArmyMP]

I cant stand the tax or the good charecter checks.... So I broke a few laws to provide for my family.... that doesnt make me a bad person... But if the sherriff doesnt like it I dont get a license? thats c r a p.... almost as much c r a p as the axis of evil is shoveling (reid, pelosi, obama)

 

[Bill of Rights]

I cant stand the tax or the good charecter checks.... So I broke a few laws to provide for my family.... that doesnt make me a bad person... But if the sherriff doesnt like it I dont get a license? thats c r a p.... almost as much c r a p as the axis of evil is shoveling (reid, pelosi, obama)

Indiana is a Shall Issue state. The sheriff can only report what you've done or not done. ISP issues the license based on your record, not on the basis of someone not liking you.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ArmyMP]

ISP issues the license based on your record, not on the basis of someone not liking you.

Based on my record.... is the point there...... thats too broad spectrum for me......... either your a felon or stupid dirty woman beater or you get a license is how it should be...... not all the limitations and restrictions...

Based on the current criteria..... i shouldnt get a license becasue I have an underage consuption..... stupid....

or what you did as a child....
stupid... you were a child...
hence juvinile court to young to understand seriousness of actions

 

[alfahornet]

Based on my record.... is the point there...... thats too broad spectrum for me......... either your a felon or stupid dirty woman beater or you get a license is how it should be...... not all the limitations and restrictions...

for example: so the known drug users who just haven't convicted of a felony, known alcoholics or the person that has a history of stalking people but not yet a conviction, or known gang members that are associating with people with violent histories all should get licenses.

No thanks in my opinion. The current system allows the CLEO to express an opinion and ISP will still issue your license unless you lied on the form or there are serious concerns. It's shall issue, it's not may issue.

Based on the current criteria..... i shouldnt get a license becasue I have an underage consuption..... stupid....

well I doubt that would prevent you from getting a license unless you lie about it.

 

[alfahornet]

wanna fix the handgun issue in illinois... take their governor, mayors and city council members to indiana and put them in a house full of expensive stuff in the area of 21st and capital... with no guns and see how it turns out... I bet they start advocating handguns for homes...

No need to bring em to IN just leave em where they are. We're better of with them in IL than in IN and find an appropriate place in bad Chicago neighborhood.

 

[dburkhead]

wanna fix the handgun issue in illinois... take their governor, mayors and city council members to indiana and put them in a house full of expensive stuff in the area of 21st and capital... with no guns and see how it turns out... I bet they start advocating handguns for homes...

No they woudn't any more than Feinstein became a friend to gun owners after getting a concealed handgun permit in California, or that Chuck Shumer became pro-gun after this:

They get their armed security or personal weapons. It's always "those people" (meaning us people) who they want to see disarmed.

 

[ArmyMP]

per indiana code licenses arent supposed to be issued to alcohol abusers with not definition of what abuse is....

for example: so the known drug users who just haven't convicted of a felony, known alcoholics or the person that has a history of stalking people but not yet a conviction, or known gang members that are associating with people with violent histories all should get licenses.

No thanks in my opinion. The current system allows the CLEO to express an opinion and ISP will still issue your license unless you lied on the form or there are serious concerns. It's shall issue, it's not may issue.

Sorry to say that i stick by the innocent until proven guilty... if they dont have a conviction the should be afford every right that you and I do.... its called equality of the law.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Based on my record.... is the point there...... thats too broad spectrum for me......... either your a felon or stupid dirty woman beater or you get a license is how it should be...... not all the limitations and restrictions...

Based on the current criteria..... i shouldnt get a license becasue I have an underage consuption..... stupid....

or what you did as a child....
stupid... you were a child...
hence juvinile court to young to understand seriousness of actions

IC 35-47-2-3
Application for license to carry handgun; procedure
Sec. 3. ...(d) The superintendent may make whatever further investigation the superintendent deems necessary. Whenever disapproval is recommended, the officer to whom the application is made shall provide the superintendent and the applicant with the officer's complete and specific reasons, in writing, for the recommendation of disapproval.
(e) If it appears to the superintendent that the applicant:
(1) has a proper reason for carrying a handgun;
(2) is of good character and reputation;
(3) is a proper person to be licensed; and
(4) is:
(A) a citizen of the United States; or
(B) not a citizen of the United States but is allowed to carry a firearm in the United States under federal law;
the superintendent shall issue to the applicant a qualified or an unlimited license to carry any handgun lawfully possessed by the applicant. The original license shall be delivered to the licensee. A copy shall be delivered to the officer to whom the application for license was made. A copy shall be retained by the superintendent for at least four (4) years in the case of a four (4) year license. The superintendent may adopt guidelines to establish a records retention policy for a lifetime license. A four (4) year license shall be valid for a period of four (4) years from the date of issue. A lifetime license is valid for the life of the individual receiving the license. The license of police officers, sheriffs or their deputies, and law enforcement officers of the United States government who have been honorably retired by a lawfully created pension board or its equivalent after twenty (20) or more years of service, shall be valid for the life of these individuals. However, a lifetime license is automatically revoked if the license holder does not remain a proper person.

IC 35-47-1-7
"Proper person"
Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44-3-3 within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year;
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in IC 35-41-1-6.3), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7;
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun;
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application;
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun;
(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within five (5) years of the person's application; or
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.191-1984, SEC.1; P.L.148-1987, SEC.3; P.L.269-1995, SEC.5; P.L.49-2005, SEC.1; P.L.118-2007, SEC.34.

IC 35-47-1-8
"Proper reason"
Sec. 8. "Proper reason" means for the defense of oneself or the state of Indiana.

IC 35-47-1-2
"Alcohol abuser"
Sec. 2. "Alcohol abuser" means an individual who has had two (2) or more alcohol related offenses, any one (1) of which resulted in conviction by a court or treatment in an alcohol abuse facility within three (3) years prior to the date of the application.

It would appear that your only argument is with IC 35-47-2-3(e) 2.

Being of good character and reputation seems to me to be determined by the local CLEO, who determines it based on a background check.

If your record won't stand that level of scrutiny, especially if, as you indicate, it's because of a minor consumption charge, I would have to wonder what more there is to the story. I'm not saying there IS more... just that it would make me wonder. You owe me no explanation.

Perhaps you should contact your sheriff or ISP and inquire as to why you were denied; unless you've been told officially that it is that, it could just be a paperwork screwup. Worth checking into, anyway-I know I would if I'd been denied.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ArmyMP]

I left Yongsan korea with 2k in liquor that customs let me bring in... i was 20... had a wild night of partying with friends and family...... slept if off work up walked to denny's ate walked home got pulled over late at night "suspicious person call" blew a .03 ended up in jail.....

Stupid justice system....


Yeah i got pulled over by a car for walking down the side of US 31.....

(e) If it appears to the superintendent that the applicant:
(1) has a proper reason for carrying a handgun;
(2) is of good character and reputation;
(3) is a proper person to be licensed; and

Is one of my serious issues....

charecter and reputation.. good.. defined by whom? what gives a criminal a bad reputation and charecter and what gives a criminal a good reputation and charecter....

 

[Bill of Rights]

per indiana code licenses arent supposed to be issued to alcohol abusers with not definition of what abuse is....

IC 35-47-1-2
"Alcohol abuser"
Sec. 2. "Alcohol abuser" means an individual who has had two (2) or more alcohol related offenses, any one (1) of which resulted in conviction by a court or treatment in an alcohol abuse facility within three (3) years prior to the date of the application.

There you go. It's listed in the same chapter under, "Definitions".

 

[Bill of Rights]

I left Yongsan korea with 2k in liquor that customs let me bring in... i was 20... had a wild night of partying with friends and family...... slept if off work up walked to denny's ate walked home got pulled over late at night "suspicious person call" blew a .03 ended up in jail.....

Stupid justice system....


Yeah i got pulled over by a car for walking down the side of US 31.....



Is one of my serious issues....

charecter and reputation.. good.. defined by whom? what gives a criminal a bad reputation and charecter and what gives a criminal a good reputation and charecter....

I gave you the best advice I can. Take it or leave it, your choice.

Perhaps you should contact your sheriff or ISP and inquire as to why you were denied; unless you've been told officially that it is that, it could just be a paperwork screwup. Worth checking into, anyway-I know I would if I'd been denied.

 

[CarmelHP]

So...did you apply and were denied? If denied, any reason given.

 

[ArmyMP]

aaah I still CC everywhere i go..... I just think the current system is to unfair... the fees poor people cant pay... and the open interpretation of someone as to your charecter. Nope didnt apply... Dont want to waste my money since they dont give it all back if they say no... thats atleast 2 cans of formula i could have feed my daughter

 

[alfahornet]

aaah I still CC everywhere i go..... I just think the current system is to unfair... the fees poor people cant pay... and the open interpretation of someone as to your charecter. Nope didnt apply... Dont want to waste my money since they dont give it all back if they say no... thats atleast 2 cans of formula i could have feed my daughter

If I get this right. You CC w/o a license. Congratulations ...

And you are/were an Army MP?

If I misunderstood your post I am sorry but that's how it comes across to me

 

[ArmyMP]

You are correct..... i do CC without a license because Indiana does not acknowledge my license.... i have a carry from NC but im an indiana resident..... 2 i was an MP.... 3 I do not see the need to pay money to exercise a Right i guarded and earned.

No one makes you pay 50 dollars to stand up and say Obama sucks....

 

[ATM]

Most violators of the law (even silly ones) do not post on open forums about it unless they wish to be arrested and become a test case.

This would be much more expensive than that formula money you saved.

 

[dburkhead]

aaah I still CC everywhere i go..... I just think the current system is to unfair... the fees poor people cant pay... and the open interpretation of someone as to your charecter. Nope didnt apply... Dont want to waste my money since they dont give it all back if they say no... thats atleast 2 cans of formula i could have feed my daughter

If I read this right you say you CC everywhere and you say that you did not apply (which would presume it hasn't been granted either).

You do not have a license but you carry. Your location is listed as Franklin so we're not talking about someone posting here who's located in Vermont.

Um. You wouldn't happen to be a one of the following by any chance would you?

(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(Parts of the list that are place/time specific deleted since "everywhere I go").

If not then....