Buying a bolt action 223 but can I shoot 5.56 out of it too?

[chef1231]

So I have been back and forth with buying a rifle that shoots 7.62 but I do not have anything else that shoots that round, to simplify I plan on a bolt 223. I have two AR's and both are 5.56 so I am aware I can shoot 223 without any problems. My question is if I get a Remington 700 they only come in 223 as do most all other bolts, from what I can tell. I have done a little reading online and everyone seems to think on a bolt it doesn't matter which caliber I use. I have not 100% ruled out the Mossburg MVP or the new Ruger of which both of those are 5.56.

 

[wsenefeld]

Could you do it, possibly. Should you do it, no.

It's similar to running +P+ ammo through a pistol that specifically states "no +P or +P+ ammo." While it may work, it'll cause significantly more wear and tear on the rifle. On the other hand, it could just blow up in your face.

 

[oldpink]

From what I understand, it's not so much a case of the bolt action not being able to contain higher pressures as such, but more a case of what the throat dimensions are and how that dynamic affects chamber pressures, especially with longer bullets.
As a thought, I'm sure you could get a skilled gunsmith to make the slight dimensional change to the throat to make it compliant with 5.56 ammo.
It shouldn't involve much more than a tiny bit of machining.

 

[natdscott]

You should run the ammo stamped on the barrel. Since that will not be 5.56x45mm NATO, you should not run that ammo.

That being said, the simple solution is to yank the barrel, and ream it for .223 Wylde or similar, and be done with the problem, real or perceived.

Remington typically throats their rifles WAY long...like, hotdog in a hallway sort of generosity in clearance...to prevent any issues, but you can't rely on it. Without rechambering, the only way to know--definitively--is to do a chamber cast.

But at the end of the day, you really need to make the decision heavily-based on what you intend to do with the rifle. What you intend to DO dictates what loads you need, and THAT dictates which BARREL you need... Remchester's standby 9-twist doesn't do nearly everything a .223 can do.

-Nate

 

[jagee]

All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.

 

[avboiler11]

Practically speaking, most factory 223 bolt action rifles come with longer than SAAMI throats, which would alleviate concerns running higher pressure 5.56 loads in a 223 chamber.

Also practically speaking, many handloaders run their loads at pressures equal to, if not in excess of, 5.56 with absolutely zero ill effects.

A lawyer will tell you DONT DO IT, most folks on the internet will tell you DONT DO IT, the reality is you likely would not see any issues whatsoever with M193, M855, Mk318 or Mk262. You could always run a couple rounds through the barrel and look for pressure signs like primer cratering/ejector swipe/case head expansion and if you do, promptly stop.

Caveat emptor, the above does not constitute legal advice, always use eye/ear pro, try the veal and tip your waitress, etc etc.

 

[Fargo]

Practically speaking, most factory 223 bolt action rifles come with longer than SAAMI throats, which would alleviate concerns running higher pressure 5.56 loads in a 223 chamber.

Also practically speaking, many handloaders run their loads at pressures equal to, if not in excess of, 5.56 with absolutely zero ill effects.

A lawyer will tell you DONT DO IT, most folks on the internet will tell you DONT DO IT, the reality is you likely would not see any issues whatsoever with M193, M855, Mk318 or Mk262. You could always run a couple rounds through the barrel and look for pressure signs like primer cratering/ejector swipe/case head expansion and if you do, promptly stop.

Caveat emptor, the above does not constitute legal advice, always use eye/ear pro, try the veal and tip your waitress, etc etc.

I'm with you. I check for high pressure signs and have at it. I am skeptical you are going to harm or blow up a 700 action based upon leade with a 5.56 cartridge.

 

[Tactically Fat]

The real answer: It depends.

It depends on the rifle.

I bought my step-dad a Ruger American in .223 for last Christmas. It's stamped ".223 Rem" on the barrel. The gun's literature says to NOT fire 5.56 NATO in it.

So, THAT gun is .223 Rem only.

Their Gunsite Scout rifles can handle BOTH.

So - it depends.

 

[ru44mag]

Thanks for the question OP. I had the same question, but decided to just play it safe, unless there was an emergency of something. I have a .223 bolt action and a new M&P 15 Sport 5.56. The bolt action is a newer el cheapo Stevens with the gray plastic stock. Any thoughts on the long chamber theory?

 

[avboiler11]

I've had two Savage 223s, and both were longer than SAAMI (the Hog Hunter was aaaaaaay long, like 2.40" to the lands with a 75gr HPBT long). I also ran with loads above max published by Hodgdon without issue.

I'd be willing to bet your Stevens would be just fine with 5.56 ammo, despite whatever lawyers insist is inserted into owners (or reloading) manuals.

AGAIN - caveat emptor and pay attention to pressure signs should you proceed.

I will say 1.5-2 MOA is probably the best accuracy you could hope for in a bolt gun from M193.

 

[DRob]

We have three bolt action .223s and only one of them has ever fired a 5.56 round. If 3"-4" groups at 100 yards suits you, have at it! Far as I'm concerned that's just making noise. We don't even shoot 5.56 in our ARs.

 

[natdscott]

Interesting, DRob.

I am quite certain that almost all of my ".223" loads (in 5.56 Lake City brass) are WELL into the 5.56x45 pressure range, but they still shoot 1/2 to 3/4 Minute, and that's from an AR.

Making a broad-brush statement like the one above is misleading, since "5.56", even in military jargon would still include the Mk 262 rounds, and they are most CERTAINLY not 3 MOA ammo.


-Nate

 

[ru44mag]

I've had two Savage 223s, and both were longer than SAAMI (the Hog Hunter was aaaaaaay long, like 2.40" to the lands with a 75gr HPBT long). I also ran with loads above max published by Hodgdon without issue.

I'd be willing to bet your Stevens would be just fine with 5.56 ammo, despite whatever lawyers insist is inserted into owners (or reloading) manuals.

AGAIN - caveat emptor and pay attention to pressure signs should you proceed.

I will say 1.5-2 MOA is probably the best accuracy you could hope for in a bolt gun from M193.

Thanks. I'm far from a competition shooter. Love to shoot old water bottles and certain varmints. The Stevens is accurate enough for me. Now the H&R Handi rifle I used to have in .223 could not even shoot 6 inch groups at 100 yards. That rifle is long gone.

 

[451_Detonics]

I have a Mossberg MPV and it is chambered for the 5.56 Nato...shoots very well with both that and .223 ammo.

View attachment 40803

 

[Indycar:v1.1]

My Rem 700 PSS has shot mostly LC 5.56 since I've owned it. Never had a problem with LC, get 3/4" - 1" groups @ 100 yds with LC.

Only problem is, @ 200 yds the accuracy w/62 gr M855 opens up to about 1-1/2 to 2 MOA and gets worse rapidly at distances beyond that.

 

[DRob]

Interesting, DRob.

I am quite certain that almost all of my ".223" loads (in 5.56 Lake City brass) are WELL into the 5.56x45 pressure range, but they still shoot 1/2 to 3/4 Minute, and that's from an AR.

Making a broad-brush statement like the one above is misleading, since "5.56", even in military jargon would still include the Mk 262 rounds, and they are most CERTAINLY not 3 MOA ammo.


-Nate

I understand that is a broad brush but it's the result of my experience with the kind of 5.56 ammo a lot of guys here seem to shoot. However, the fact that you're using 5.56 brass for your reloads doesn't make your ammo 5.56. I'm just saying that readily-available factory 5.56 ammo is not nearly as accurate as my reloads (and clearly yours as well) or the commercial .223 ammo I've used. Nor am I saying ARs are inherently inaccurate, by the way. I've had a couple that were pretty danged good.

 

[17 squirrel]

My Rem 700 PSS has shot mostly LC 5.56 since I've owned it. Never had a problem with LC, get 3/4" - 1" groups @ 100 yds with LC.

Only problem is, @ 200 yds the accuracy w/62 gr M855 opens up to about 1-1/2 to 2 MOA and gets worse rapidly at distances beyond that.

If you have a PSS the twist in most of them was 1"-12". And with that slow twist and the long length of the M855 bullet ( because of the steel core ) you will loose yaw and tumble pretty quick.
I also have a PSS and it will loose yaw and tumble within 30' of leaving the barrel shooting SS109 ammo. ( and my Cooper is the same, it will shoot 8' group at 100 yds ) It loves Sierra 60 grainers and any other bullet down to 45 grains.
I think some of the 700P's have had a 1"-9" twist ,,.

 

[natdscott]

Correct. Current production .223 LE rifles from the Green Giant are all 9-twist to enable the accurate usage of, and defense in court if need be, the Federal GMM 69 SMK load, amongst a very few others in common use.

Heavier weight bonded bullets and/or steel core penetrators obviously also require a twist rate well faster than 1-12.

1:8 or 1:7.5 would have been a MUCH better choice, but they already had the mandrels, and what do I know anyway...

-Nate

 

[Indycar:v1.1]

If you have a PSS the twist in most of them was 1"-12". And with that slow twist and the long length of the M855 bullet ( because of the steel core ) you will loose yaw and tumble pretty quick.
I also have a PSS and it will loose yaw and tumble within 30' of leaving the barrel shooting SS109 ammo. ( and my Cooper is the same, it will shoot 8' group at 100 yds ) It loves Sierra 60 grainers and any other bullet down to 45 grains.
I think some of the 700P's have had a 1"-9" twist ,,.

My 700P that I described above, has FACTORY STANDARD 1/9" twist which is fine for 62gr. I shoot 68, 69 and 75gr in it also.

 

[Ranger Rick]

I'm with 451 D, my Mossberg MVP shoots great and takes AR mags!