Bombs? Really?

[thunderchicken]

Police are the quickest response to such incidents and if that means they need better firepower than I have access to then they should have it. They are thete to serve us by handling the threat not waiting for big gov help...remember bengazi! They waited for gov help. Police are facing threats that have been educated on tactics and IF that means certain incidents there are no good options...blow the mf'r up! Problem solved

 

[Salty]

CNN reported that the suspect said there were bombs all over the garage. Why is it a problem to use a bomb on a robot?

 

[mrjarrell]

History shows us that cops using bombs against the citizenry, even a murderer, is bad idea. You get babies in cribs blown up and citizens burned to death, along with massive destruction on a war time scale. Cops and bombs have no place in the criminal justice system, other than for uses such as breaching or disarming explosives. Using them against people, even a murderer is stepping across a line that shouldn't be crossed.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of The MOVE Bombing? : Code Switch : NPR

 

[seedubs1]

Interesting to see INGO so in support of police militarization.

 

[Libertarian01]

A bunkered active shooter terrorist? HELL YES. We are not talking about a traffic stop here. Nerve gas the mother****er.

Nerve gas, that could be the next weapon to pop up. How about this, hold the bunkered bastard in his bunker until he starves to death?

Well... Now that you mention it...

We could follow the Russian lead in dealing with Chechen rebels.

Not nerve gas but...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

This was the first thing I thought of when people said gas.

Regards,

Doug

 

[T.Lex]

History shows us that cops using bombs against the citizenry, even a murderer, is bad idea. You get babies in cribs blown up and citizens burned to death, along with massive destruction on a war time scale. Cops and bombs have no place in the criminal justice system, other than for uses such as breaching or disarming explosives. Using them against people, even a murderer is stepping across a line that shouldn't be crossed.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of The MOVE Bombing? : Code Switch : NPR

So, how many times since then have police dropped bombs from helos, or planes, or used robots?

Pretty scarce.

 

[BogWalker]

Interesting to see INGO so in support of police militarization.

Yeah, it's new that police are going around with automatic weapons, armored vehicles, and bullet resistant vests.

Wait, no, they've been doing that since what pre-WWII? The difference is everything is painted camo now and that scares us.

 

[mrjarrell]

So, how many times since then have police dropped bombs from helos, or planes, or used robots?

Pretty scarce.

Because most departments learned a lesson. Apparently, DPD needs a refresher course.

 

[seedubs1]

Um.....not really sure where to go with this. Militarization did indeed start some time ago. But it has gone to an extreme level more recently. And I'm not just talking about "scary camo and black colored firearms."

Yeah, it's new that police are going around with automatic weapons, armored vehicles, and bullet resistant vests. Wait, no, they've been doing that since what pre-WWII? The difference is everything is painted camo now and that scares us.

 

[T.Lex]

Because most departments learned a lesson.

So, what are we arguing about? How close we are to a slippery slope that we've avoided for 30 years?

For LEOs, a bomb is a tool, like a gun or a bulldozer or a coffee pot. Assess the situation and use the best tool for the job, as any professional should.

 

[mrjarrell]

Well... Now that you mention it...

We could follow the Russian lead in dealing with Chechen rebels.

Not nerve gas but...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

This was the first thing I thought of when people said gas.

Regards,

Doug

And how did that turn out for the victims?

 

[thunderchicken]

I'm just glad the whole situation wasn't worse. Dallas PD took great losses and a decision was made based on the info they had and that is what we ask for. They did their job and stopped the threat.

 

[NightFisher]

So, what are we arguing about? How close we are to a slippery slope that we've avoided for 30 years?

For LEOs, a bomb is a tool, like a gun or a bulldozer or a coffee pot. Assess the situation and use the best tool for the job, as any professional should.

An oven is a tool.

 

[mrjarrell]

So, what are we arguing about? How close we are to a slippery slope that we've avoided for 30 years?

For LEOs, a bomb is a tool, like a gun or a bulldozer or a coffee pot. Assess the situation and use the best tool for the job, as any professional should.

Within reason. We do not use bombs against people in this country. SWAT teams all over the country wait out perpetrators all the time, without resorting to using bombs, just their standard, everyday gear. They don't turn standoffs into action movies.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Welcome to INGO. We have a whole other thread on the shooting itself, full of dividing. We've blamed entire groups, races, and classes of people on the shooting in Dallas. Lot of dividing going on.

However, you're speaking to us ("them") non-LEOs as though we're idiots, condescendingly.

I've gathered you're LEO (context clues, others calling you one)... and I understand your drive to side with the LEOs and their choices. Us normal plebs, though... have reasonable concerns about the use of robots to explode people, however.

If you can take the badge off for a minute and discuss with us, rather than condescend to us... maybe we'll all understand a bit better.

Nah, I'm done.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Bringing in the national guard would have been an appropriate response to an active terrorist who is currently killing people.

Why?

Who decides it's a terrorist?

Given that the vast majority of the NG is untrained and unversed in domestic law enforcement, what is "better" about this approach?

Several guys in my office are also currently reservists of some stripe, both officers and NCOs. If they change hats, is it cool if they use the EOD robot with a bomb on it?

Next time, let's hope the swat team doesn't drop a bomb in a toddlers crib because we decide from this incident that it's ok for cops to use bombs to kill.

The anti-gunner argument. It's about tools, not about actions. Don't complain when people blame the rifle for the Dallas murders.

Interesting to see INGO so in support of police militarization.

Interesting to see so many (you) supporting martial law for a civilian population.

So we're getting to the point of saying it's ok for police to use drones to take out people when deadly force is acceptable. Again, not ok with any of this. Police are authorized to use deadly force, but "by any means possible" is not acceptable to me. They shouldn't be authorized to use anything that a standard citizen can't legally use for self defense as a means to carry out deadly force.

But if the NG did it, it's cool?

So...we need to use the military to enforce the laws so the people who actually are supposed to enforce the laws don't become too much like the military while enforcing the laws.

 

[seedubs1]

This

Within reason. We do not use bombs against people in this country. SWAT teams all over the country wait out perpetrators all the time, without resorting to using bombs, just their standard, everyday gear. They don't turn standoffs into action movies.

 

[T.Lex]

Within reason. We do not use bombs against people in this country. SWAT teams all over the country wait out perpetrators all the time, without resorting to using bombs, just their standard, everyday gear. They don't turn standoffs into action movies.

Exactly. There's been no abuse of this particular modality.

But, as I said up-thread, this was a truly unique situation. And, as further evidence of having learned the MOVE lesson, DPD didn't go overboard with the boom sticks. Used the right amount to get the job done.

 

[thunderchicken]

To me a stand off is someone holed up and making threats but not actively engaging police with gun fire. You don't just wait it out....remember north hollywood should LAPD have waited out for swat? No they went to gun shops and got the weaponry needed to neutralize the threat

 

[BogWalker]

Um.....not really sure where to go with this. Militarization did indeed start some time ago. But it has gone to an extreme level more recently. And I'm not just talking about "scary camo and black colored firearms."

How so? I'm not seeing many new developments. I think we're seeing some changes in tactics that distance the police of today from Officer Friendly of yesteryear, but the majority of complaints I see about militarization are concerning police equipment which, functionally, hasn't changed a lot in the last 30 years.