Blade Snobs

[Kick]

OK. While doing / attempting to do the research to figure out what the knife was, I posted in my last thread, I found that there are a lot of blade snobs out there. I have owned knives and own several knives. I have just never been "into them".

Now that I have been reading posts here and on several other forums, I have found that several people have issues with the following brands I own:

- Benchmade

- Cold Steel

- CRKT

- Gerber

- Kershaw

- Smith and Wesson


I just do not know what the issues are. For the most part, the brands are just listed in the "won't ever buy / own" type threads So, for my personal sense of well-being, can you guys enlighten me as to what is wrong with these blades? I own at least one of all of the above and carry them frequently...

 

[Que]

I'm not sure what the problem is with Benchmade and Kershaw. I've never heard anything negative about them and have not had any issues with those that I own.

 

[Kick]

I'm not sure what the problem is with Benchmade and Kershaw. I've never heard anything negative about them and have not had any issues with those that I own.

Yeah, I've broken 2 Smith and Wesson knives. I can kind of understand that. I also learned that the knife from my last thread was a "Dalton" and that Rob Dalton is apparently racist as all hell. Those are pretty good reasons not to buy / own a particular knife. But, other than breaking (while misusing) the Smith and Wesson knives, I can't find a good reason not to buy / carry any of the ones listed in my OP.

 

[Sylvain]

Im not a knife snob even though I love some brands (like Spyderco), it all depends on each individual knife.
Some great brands produce some poor models, some produce ONLY poor models, some only quality models.

Benchmade is a great brand in my book, so is Cold Steel (they make some great large folders that non other brands make), CRKT makes some interesting designs, Gerber do make some poor models (but not all of them) and S&W mainly do cheap "made in china" models with cheap heat treated steel.

 

[finnegan]

I never really understood this either. Blades are priced at the quality of steel/ craftmanship they possess (well, except really bad Marto-level wall hangers, but that is a whole other can of worms). I've been a blacksmith for 15 years and always grill potential customers as to what they actually want before selecting steel. I also tell them that it doesn't matter if it was made in China, Pakistan, or Vahalla: If it has a point, it can stab, if it has an edge, it can cut. Its a matter of how long it maintains that that is the real issue.

I've made some awesome looking letter openers and rather dull-looking weapons in my time. Its all a matter of intended use vs cost. People buying their "Apocalypse" knife obviously want something that is absolutely top of the line. People buying a bushcraft knife are slightly (ever so slightly) more lenient; etc.

 

[Kick]

I never really understood this either. Blades are priced at the quality of steel/ craftmanship they possess (well, except really bad Marto-level wall hangers, but that is a whole other can of worms). I've been a blacksmith for 15 years and always grill potential customers as to what they actually want before selecting steel. I also tell them that it doesn't matter if it was made in China, Pakistan, or Vahalla: If it has a point, it can stab, if it has an edge, it can cut. Its a matter of how long it maintains that that is the real issue.

I've made some awesome looking letter openers and rather dull-looking weapons in my time. Its all a matter of intended use vs cost. People buying their "Apocalypse" knife obviously want something that is absolutely top of the line. People buying a bushcraft knife are slightly (ever so slightly) more lenient; etc.

I was once told by an older guy that if I buy a super sharp knife, it will get super dull super fast. I was also told that if I buy a sort of sharp knife, it will only get sort of dull sort of fast.

It sounds silly but, it seems to have been my experience with knives. I end up carrying super sharp knives at work and the sort of dull knives at home (along with super sharp knives that have gotten dull)

I would love to find a knife that is sharp enough to cut through a seat belt like a hot knife through butter yet keep it's edge after cutting kids toys out of the boxes, rope, and other household uses. I just can't seem to find something that is that sharp out of the box and holds its edge....

 

[finnegan]

Kick; I've only had one "Holy $#!+! sharp object like that: a cheapo katana I bought when I was 17. A friend was handling it, and drew it while it was resting on his lap. Somehow, it cut a sliver of his thumb off, through his jeans, and into his leg enough to draw blood on a 7" draw. He didn't even get to the proper curve of the blade.

It was 420 J2 Stainless. Not a great steel at all, but whatever dishonored Shinto priest bladesmith that had to slum at the Chinese factory that this one was made at made sure that the tradition of craftsmanship was upheld!
And yes, I still have it and treat it as if its a rabid animal every time I unsheath it even though I know better.

 

[M67]

What's your definition of snob?

- Benchmade

- Cold Steel

- CRKT

- Gerber

- Kershaw

- Smith and Wesson

I don't have a problem with Benchmade (old carry knife was an 890 Torrent), Kershaw (carried a 1550T and a 1550, even though I broke the tip of the 1550T, I bent the tip of my 1550, and my friend bent the tip on his), and OLD Gerber knives.

CRKT overall is okay, but there's a lot of Chinese copies so make sure you're buying through someone legit.

New Gerbers, ehhh. Have you seen the Ber Grylls knife?

Smith is made by Taylor, same company who makes new Schrade and someone else (I forget). Inexpensive, okay steel, they have a lifetime warranty (I beleive) but for the cost of the knife most don't bother to use the warranty.

Cold Steel, some people can write a book on them. Older stuff is good, newer is hit or miss. Lynn Thompson is, for lack of better words.......a character.

I was once told by an older guy that if I buy a super sharp knife, it will get super dull super fast. I was also told that if I buy a sort of sharp knife, it will only get sort of dull sort of fast.

It sounds silly but, it seems to have been my experience with knives.
I would love to find a knife that is sharp enough to cut through a seat belt like a hot knife through butter yet keep it's edge after cutting kids toys out of the boxes, rope, and other household uses. I just can't seem to find something that is that sharp out of the box and holds its edge...

Super sharp knives usually will get duller faster, but on a razor sharp knife, even if it dulls, it's still sharp and a little stropping will take care of it. But, you have to factor in what grind the knife is, steel, heat treat, etc to determine how the edge will handle the use. It's an old saying, some truth, but at the same time........ It's about the steel.

As for a knife you're looking at, stays sharp through everything no matter what you do, with zero maintenance, well, that's the impossible quest. There's no knife out there that will last a lifetime with the original edge, be it a $10 Taylor knife, a $500 Hinderer, or a $1000 RJ Martin. If you use it, it's going to get dull eventually and you're going to have to sharpen it. If the edge isn't too gone, and it's good steel, a little stropping goes a long way. If the edge is really gone, then yeah, you're going to have to work for it.

But, stays sharp for a super long time, look at a fully serrated blade. The actual edge almost never gets damaged, and with a little stone work on the off side of the edge you can get the tips back to sharp.

 

[Jeremiah]

OK. While doing / attempting to do the research to figure out what the knife was, I posted in my last thread, I found that there are a lot of blade snobs out there. I have owned knives and own several knives. I have just never been "into them".

Now that I have been reading posts here and on several other forums, I have found that several people have issues with the following brands I own:

- Benchmade
no general issue with benchmade, for my money I'd rather buy a spyderco with the exception of balisongs and a few fixed blades
- Cold Steel
other than interest in their plastic weapons and an old carbon V tanto I disdain the product line, most of their stuff is overpriced, their folders feel fragile or so overbuilt I'd never want them in my pocket
- CRKT
Meh in general, I'll spend the extra and get a spyderco

- Gerber
Puke, cheap crap at best, and generally I can get better performance for less or similar money buy going with a different brand, Victornox comes to mind
- Kershaw
I hate the look/feel/and fanboys solid knives for the money but I have a junkyard dog composite and will have a rake, my brother has a junkyard dog composite and a special run fixed balde from snap on made by kershaw, the trend is CPMd2 and kershaw has it the cheapest
- Smith and Wesson
cheap crap hardly describes it, the need to stop brand &*)(*^%$ and go back to the drawing board on pistols, drop the cost of the revolvers, drop the lock, bring back some solid oldies 3" M 65 and a scandium framed 9mm k frame with fixed sights and a pachmayr compac grips and no lock wouldn't break my heart.


I just do not know what the issues are. For the most part, the brands are just listed in the "won't ever buy / own" type threads So, for my personal sense of well-being, can you guys enlighten me as to what is wrong with these blades? I own at least one of all of the above and carry them frequently...

/rant

 

[Hemingway]

Well, you gotta understand the knife industry. With a couple of exceptions, they all have the insecurities of 8th grade girls. Most of them would just as soon put down another brand as try to help. Often times, this translates to their fans. Knife owners, like gun owners, truck owners and a few other people are fans, more than customers.

Take Busse for example. I'm picking a little on them, but Busse makes great knives. Busse owners are more fans than they are customers. They are (stereotyping here) RABID supporters of their brand. Sometimes this comes across to others as, "I'd never own a Gerber, they don't have 1/4" blades made of mystery steel. Why, I bet I'd never even be able to chop through 3 cinder blocks if all I had was a Gerber."

Some people think you need to spend more than $250 on a hunk of metal or it's no good. The reality is much different. Travel to 3rd world countries where people use their knives every day for ACTUAL work. In every case I've ever seen, they were simple, carbon blades made by no name companies or the cheaper US companies.

I've never seen a South American villager with a Strider.

Knife people (of whom I am one) are somewhat like .45 owners--they get their egos invested in their product (to use a phrase) and then that becomes their personal standard by which everything else is judged.

I'll give you an example: I'm prejudiced against Cold Steel. I think the owner is a complete tool and I think that their marketing is absolutely contrived and ridiculous. However, I'll readily admit that I'm wrong in this and that some of their blades have provided years of good service to their owners.

TOPS is another brand I cannot take serious. When they are putting out a new knife every other week with some Freedom/Patrol/Agent Orange/Tracking Fool/Sky-Kicking Marshal-type name combined with Klingon-type lines, it turns me off. However, there are probably TOPS users out there with some good stories of what knives have done for them.

I tend to let the owners of the company, how the company is run, the customer service, etc, factor in a LOT as to whether I like the knife. I probably shouldn't and just judge the tool itself. But I do. As such, I'm a big fan of ESEE, Becker, Grayman and Blind Horse. I think they are all great people, great service and have a great product. Not incidentally, these are also the companies who's customers post the majority of usage shots: outdoor stuff, 3rd world travel, military usage, etc. That means more to me that some DVD with synchro-pop music and some fat dude in a robe stabbing a slab of hanging ribs.

Bottom line: We all have preconceived opinions about a lot of knife brands. I wouldn't let it influence you.

Knives are made to cut things. All of the knives you mentioned cut things and are fine.

 

[Bradsknives]

 

[HandK]

I think I found who makes it! check them out here! Looks like the trade mark on your picture!

::: Welcome to Rinaldi Custom Blades :::

 

[M67]

Take Busse for example. I'm picking a little on them, but Busse makes great knives. Busse owners are more fans than they are customers. They are (stereotyping here) RABID supporters of their brand. Sometimes this comes across to others as, "I'd never own a Gerber, they don't have 1/4" blades made of mystery steel. Why, I bet I'd never even be able to chop through 3 cinder blocks if all I had was a Gerber."

1/4" is kind of thin ain't it?

Some people like thick stuff, others like thinner. Personal preference. I like em' chunky

Esee people are rabid supporters of their knvies too, same with Becker, Kershaw, Zero Tolerance, Hinderer, Strider, Loveless, Dozier, Randall, Chris Reeve, Horton, Case, Buck, etc.

You compared knife people to gun people earlier, same principle. We all have brands that we swear by, there are others out there, but that is the company we support.

Oh, if you had an older Gerber, you could to the cinder block thing. And that comment sounds remarkably familiar to one of Ron Hoods' video of the Buck Hoodlum.

Some people think you need to spend more than $250 on a hunk of metal or it's no good. The reality is much different. Travel to 3rd world countries where people use their knives every day for ACTUAL work. In every case I've ever seen, they were simple, carbon blades made by no name companies or the cheaper US companies.

Cost of living is lower, price of labor is a lot less, and not a lot of disposable income for most. I've been talking to a guy in Thailand for the past week. There are a lot of custom makers over there who use scrap ball bearings for knives, use a good heat treat on it, and you have an inexpensive handmade knife (I'm getting one from him, it looks fairly nice from the pic, and shipping will be almost what the knife costs.

Price of a knife is subject to the person, I agree. A lot of people won't spend over $100 on a knife. It's like some people won't spend over $700 on a handgun, $1000 on a scope, but they'll drop $3000 on a shotgun. It's about utility and how much use you're going to get out of it. Is there a problem with knives that cost $100 or less? No, there are several companies who make solid folders and fixed blades for that price.


Knives are made to cut things.

Good ol' Randall warranty

::: Welcome to Rinaldi Custom Blades :::

Trace Rinaldi, cool knives, and made one of the most random and harsh Busse rants of all time (random thought).

 

[Gabriel]

I have a Benchmade Mini-Stryker (my only Benchmade) that I've had for years. My only complaint is the blade isn't centered between the liners when it is closed. In fact it sits against one side (which bothers me every time I see it ). Other than that it's a fine knife.

I had some older gerbers and liked them.

I had a S&W fixed blade that broke the first time I used it, so I won't buy another. From all the metallurgy/knife books I've read lately, I'd say it wasn't heat reated properly.

Cold Steel makes junk. They also make some knives with decent steel. You have to know which ones you are buying before you part with your money. Personally I just stay away (except I want a cheap throwing hawk, so I might have to bite the bullet and get one of their trail hawks).


Personally for folders I like Spyderco. Not only do they have great designs (and a lot of collaborative designs), but they experiment with different good steels and simply seem like a bunch of knife nuts for being such a large company. Little things like the Mule Team Project (yeah, they're fixed blades) make me just really like the company.

There are too many good knife companies out there with decent prices for quality products to settle for crappy knives. My new fancy is the Bladeforum knifemaker for sale section. There are some really talented people over there selling their hand made wares for good prices. I like the though of givig my money to one guy that has a passion for knives than a faceless corporation (although they both build good tools). Obviously your chances of getting something with a bad heat treat or flaw is a bit greater, but these guys value their reputations and will do what they can to make it right.

 

[ghuns]

Opinions are like... well, you know. I have never heard anyone bad-mouth Benchmade. Have a couple older CRKT's, great knives. My EDC is an old Cold Steel pro-lite folder with the tanto blade in carbon V. It's a great knife. To each his own.

 

[OneBadV8]

What's your definition of snob?

I think you definitely fit the definition

 

[mikeplan14]

From your collection that you showed me last weekend onebadv8, you do as well

 

[bobbystoney]

Price of a knife is subject to the person, I agree. A lot of people won't spend over $100 on a knife. It's like some people won't spend over $700 on a handgun, $1000 on a scope, but they'll drop $3000 on a shotgun.

I was in Fishers a couple of days ago at the Indiana Gun Club and I heard that somebody had bought a $40,000 shotgun. Now I may have a few $2k Busses but $40k for a shotgun? That was mind boggling to me.

And it's not so much for the fact that somebody would pay that for a shotgun but that people have $40,0000 to blow.

 

[grunt soldier]

Well, you gotta understand the knife industry. With a couple of exceptions, they all have the insecurities of 8th grade girls. Most of them would just as soon put down another brand as try to help. Often times, this translates to their fans. Knife owners, like gun owners, truck owners and a few other people are fans, more than customers.

I think you may want to hang out more places. in most manufacturing forums including busse they will not let you bad mouth or talk **** about other brands. so it doesn't really happen. most makers I know personally like Jeremy horton, ban tang, the fine folks of busse, jeff randall and all the others rarely ever say a bad word about another brand or maker. they usually all say positive things or nothing at all

Take Busse for example. I'm picking a little on them, but Busse makes great knives. Busse owners are more fans than they are customers. They are (stereotyping here) RABID supporters of their brand. Sometimes this comes across to others as, "I'd never own a Gerber, they don't have 1/4" blades made of mystery steel. Why, I bet I'd never even be able to chop through 3 cinder blocks if all I had was a Gerber."

you always talk about busse and busse owners. do you own a busse or have you used any? busse knives are awesome knives, very well built with a amazing warranty, great steel. the customers or fans as you call them appreciate that. I'm not sure about other busse owners but I own tons and tons of brands, esee, tops, old gerbers, JK knives, Horton knives, ban tang knives, opinel knives, swiss army knives, ect ect ect. it's just like firearms. hipoints work great do you carry one or do you carry a more expensive pistol that does the same thing?

Some people think you need to spend more than $250 on a hunk of metal or it's no good. The reality is much different. Travel to 3rd world countries where people use their knives every day for ACTUAL work. In every case I've ever seen, they were simple, carbon blades made by no name companies or the cheaper US companies.

I don't think people believe you have to spend that much or its no good but I bet there are a lot of people who believe in the buy once cry once mentality. I have broken more junk gerber multitools in countries all over the world, so I won't waste my time with there product anymore. yes in 3rd world countries they beat on some very cheap functional machetes. it's what they have access too. if they could afford better they probably would go that route. Aren't you a Randall knives collector. you say you order a new one every 3 months. those are pretty damn expensive why do you spend so much if a cheap machete will suffice?

I've never seen a South American villager with a Strider.

Knife people (of whom I am one) are somewhat like .45 owners--they get their egos invested in their product (to use a phrase) and then that becomes their personal standard by which everything else is judged.

I'm glad you put of whom I am one because you are definitely invested in your blades emotionally, maybe not as much as others but you definitely always talking about esee ect. I think to many people do this unfortunately this day and age because they want there kit to be the best out there. I personally don't give a **** what I use as long as it does the job well. however if I can afford a product that is more functional, and works better I will go that route for sure. it's saves time and effort

I'll give you an example: I'm prejudiced against Cold Steel. I think the owner is a complete tool and I think that their marketing is absolutely contrived and ridiculous. However, I'll readily admit that I'm wrong in this and that some of their blades have provided years of good service to their owners.

cold steels owner is a dummy and he does dumb stuff. they also steal a ton of their designs and functions such as the wave form other manufacturer. the other main problem with them is they don't actually make their own products. they use whatever factory is cheapest. so some come from china, taiwan, japan, ect, ect. some are decent blades and some are complete junk. a lot are very gimicky and don't function like they claim. all around bad business from them for the most part and good luck getting warranty work.

TOPS is another brand I cannot take serious. When they are putting out a new knife every other week with some Freedom/Patrol/Agent Orange/Tracking Fool/Sky-Kicking Marshal-type name combined with Klingon-type lines, it turns me off. However, there are probably TOPS users out there with some good stories of what knives have done for them.

there are some great tops blades out there. they do have some crazy stuff but that is what a business has to do to succeed this day and age. pander to all clients not just the ones they feel like. a ton of there blades are designed by spec ops, swat officers, amazing bushcraft folks ect ect. they make some solid blades with good materials for good prices. check out some.

I tend to let the owners of the company, how the company is run, the customer service, etc, factor in a LOT as to whether I like the knife. I probably shouldn't and just judge the tool itself. But I do. As such, I'm a big fan of ESEE, Becker, Grayman and Blind Horse. I think they are all great people, great service and have a great product. Not incidentally, these are also the companies who's customers post the majority of usage shots: outdoor stuff, 3rd world travel, military usage, etc. That means more to me that some DVD with synchro-pop music and some fat dude in a robe stabbing a slab of hanging ribs.

your right you definitely shouldn't do that. you should base a product off how it preforms. I however won't disagree that esee, becker, blind horse and grayman are awesome companies. I own multiple blades from all of them. I will however say again your seeing the user pictures form those customers because those are the brands you follow and like. if you hung out in the busse forums, or the dpx forums (another guy I can't stand lol), or the tops forums, or the outdoor forums on blade you would see literally thousands and thousands of different user blades in action. the busse kill devil hawk was literally designed and tested for a year in afghanistan by A navy seals team. I was infantry for 6 years and spent 2 in iraq and 1 in afghanistan I can't even list all the blades I saw people carry. there are users from every group and collectors too. also you may see more people posting pictures from esee and blind horse because they are producing tons and tons more blades and selling them for much cheaper so they get in a lot more peoples hands. just something else to think about.

Bottom line: We all have preconceived opinions about a lot of knife brands. I wouldn't let it influence you.

I agree with you on this completely except for cold steel mainly because on top of a lot of the junk they put out they steel a lot of designs and ideas. that is sad because most companies will let you borrow it as long as you give credit to them.


Knives are made to cut things. All of the knives you mentioned cut things and are fine.

except for cold steel lol and honestly the new product gerber is putting out are ****. the bear grylls line has been recalled like 76 times, they just fall apart lol.

here is my big thing. if you buy products made here in America with great warranties you pretty much have nothing to worry about. All the companies here stand behind there products and that is the biggest thing. now go out and use the crap out of your knives so you know what you like and what works

All my replies in red

 

[DFM914]

Get yourself an ESEE or a TOPS and you'll understand.