Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[2A_Tom]

They conveniently left off the part where the first guy chasing this kid had a handgun and fired off shots.

1st video in the car lot you can clearly hear pistol shots followed by the rifle shots.

You heard gunshots? You did not see who fired them. There is no picture or video of red shirt with a gun. In the case of the disarmed guy, someone came in and retrieved his gun and walked away.

I am not saying that red shirt did not have a gun, because I have seen no evidence either way.

 

[BigRed]

All the "experts" on police procedure (i.e. anyone who has seen two episodes of TJ Hooker and one or more episodes of Law and Order) always ask "couldn't they have just shot him in the leg/arm?"

I think the photos graphically demonstrate what can happen when one is "just" shot in the arm.

Maybe it depends on the cartridge and projectile.... not sure a 9mm would have been nearly as effective as a .223 or 5.56!

Meh.... threats are fired upon to halt the threat... not to preserve them.

 

[ditcherman]

Same. But how many of us here actually get out and train with similar minded folks to work on the communications, team tactics and other critical components required for neighborhood patrol?

I'm sure some more than others, but so many think all they need is a rifle and half decent aim in order to show up and protect property. Do they expect if things get FUBAR a plan will just materialize and they'll know what to do?

I'm really looking hard at taking a neighborhood defense class soon.

https://www.valorridge.com/products/neighborhood-defense

I've heard rumors of "low light team sh** next level unit" stuff coming to a range near you. Haven't heard anything lately though. It sounds cool.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

You’d think the other militia members would have been extra protective of that kid.

On a side note. If someone hired them to protect businesses, it had to be an insurance company. During this pandemic, I imagine a lot of business owners are hoping their businesses burn down.

This post earlier shows the kids 5 minutes before the first shooting. He had moved away from the building they were protecting to ask people if they needed any medical treatment. He then tried to return to his group but was prevented from doing so by the police. The first shooting occurs almost exactly 5 minutes after he leaves camera view. The second shooting almost a minute and a half after that and is partially in camera at a distance. Here's the post with the video link which was an excellent find injb:

Yeah you can see this at https://youtu.be/EEY5aBPNvIg?t=7135 (he returns at around 1:58:55)

The first shooting happened around 5-6 minutes after the police turned him away.

yeah the "bad choice in going there" isn't the same as being a murderer, not even close

OTOH I think Kut is saying to be cautious about making him into a hero

I agree... everything I've seen points to both shootings being legit self-defense. Also, all footage of the kid shows him being helpful and non-confrontational... I.e. everything points to him being the "good guy", but let's wait until everything is known prior to holding him up as a hero... and I say that not taking anything away from him defending himself well against those who are obviously, by their actions and records, bad guys no doubt.

I'm not so sure. I say that because; concerning Rosenbaum, some keywords I was expecting are missing (ie assault, attacked, placed in fear). I'll have to look at the video again, but essentially it seems like the narrative is saying that Rosenbaum pursued the kid, but there not anything articulated which indicated that deadly force was warranted.

Kut, I had the same reservations initially on the first shooting (red shirt guy). There is lots of gunfire going on in that parking lot... BUT, NYT of all places did a video analysis and found the first shots fired were by a crowd/mob member. The recently added statement by McGinnis (Daily Caller reporter/videographer who is the one also running into the parking lot and then renders first aid to red shirt) solidifies it even more. We have the blanks filled in now.

After the kid couldn't get back to his group, he went elsewhere. Red shirt sees him and starts angling towards him. Kid moves away, red shirt follow, kid runs. Others join the chase including McGinnis the reporter who I believe is videoing, though I've not seen any of his video. Now there are numbers chasing the kid, which in itself starts to present a self-defense scenario even if none were armed with anything but hands if they get close enough to be an immediate threat. the pursuit goes into the car/parking lot with red shirt gaining. Mob member shoots (according to NYT into the air) just as red shirt almost reaches the kids who then wheels and fires killing red shirt.

(and I left out red shirt throwing something because I've seen no credible report on what it was)

So, mob chasing you for no reason and shooting guns and an immediate threat in close proximity (red shirt). IMO, this is clear-cut reasonable fear self-defense.

The shooting in the street speaks for itself.

 

[rooster]

You heard gunshots? You did not see who fired them. There is no picture or video of red shirt with a gun. In the case of the disarmed guy, someone came in and retrieved his gun and walked away.

I am not saying that red shirt did not have a gun, because I have seen no evidence either way.

this video shows one of the handguns shot prior to the shooting of the man in the red shirts. https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298840777251008512?s=21

also the NYT has updated their timeline with another still showing a handgun muzzle flash from another direction. Aimed at who I’m not sure. Point is this kid thought he was getting shot at and quite possibly was.

 

[2A_Tom]

Yes, but my point was that there is no evidence that red shirt had a gun.

His proximity to Kyle was the stressor that allowed the shot.

 

[BroodXI]

You heard gunshots? You did not see who fired them. There is no picture or video of red shirt with a gun. In the case of the disarmed guy, someone came in and retrieved his gun and walked away.

I am not saying that red shirt did not have a gun, because I have seen no evidence either way.

Pedo didn't have a gun. Someone else following the pedo fired into the air. gansta style

 

[Leadeye]

No, no, no. That is holywood zombie makeup! I have seen a bunch of guys shot with .45 Colt, and they just have a little spot of blood on their shirt. I love Westerns.

Notice that I correctly omitted "long".

And us old gun people thank you for that.

 

[OakRiver]

An article that presents skaterboy as a hero, well his girlfriend's version anyway. This contradicts all video evidence but CNN gonna sell their version no matter what your eyes tell you.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/28/us/kenosha-wisconsin-protest-shooting-victims/index.html

And never mentions that Medic was pointing a gun at AR Kid when shot.
When the suspect shot Huber, Grosskreutz froze, ducked to the ground and took a step back, according to the complaint. He puts his hands in the air and then began to move toward the suspect, the complaint says. The suspect fired one shot, hitting Grosskreutz in the arm, according to the complaint.

Did they learn nothing from Sandman?

 

[craigkim]

Pedo didn't have a gun. Someone else following the pedo fired into the air. gansta style

If you watch the video and that attorney’s breakdown... obviously the first pop was from the handgun being fired in the air, but the next burst of 4 look on the sound meter measurement more like handgun as well. They also actually sound more like handgun To me too. Contrast them to that last trio which we know to be rifle shots and they seem too much different. Could all Be acoustics, but we can’t actually see what is going on during the 4 shot group. The attorney erroneously says its 3 shots as he discusses it.

Edit: Notice that the rifle has lots of noise showing up on the meter trailing the spikes in each case that we KNOW it was the rifle.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

this video shows one of the handguns shot prior to the shooting of the man in the red shirts. https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298840777251008512?s=21

also the NYT has updated their timeline with another still showing a handgun muzzle flash from another direction. Aimed at who I’m not sure. Point is this kid thought he was getting shot at and quite possibly was.

Also noticed immediately prior to the car lot shooting, at least one of the mob carrying poles lifted it up into what looks like a spear throwing position pointing in the direction of where the kid and red shirt went into the parked cars.

 

[BigRed]

Sounds to me like he's just a driven young man who cares about the community and is willing to take a risk to help protect it.
And he isn't going to ask for permission before he takes actions in the interest of the community, he's just going to do it.

In other words, he is everything Mayor Hog****t is not.

 

[BroodXI]

so the confrontation with the armed group happened right next to the intersection where the police where. The Pedo was shot two blocks south of there. The kid tried to walk through the police blockade to get to "where he works" and was turned away. walks back across the intersection to where the verbal altercation was. were they all just walking around in circles?

 

[RobertTheBruce]

so the confrontation with the armed group happened right next to the intersection where the police where. The Pedo was shot two blocks south of there. The kid tried to walk through the police blockade to get to "where he works" and was turned away. walks back across the intersection to where the verbal altercation was. were they all just walking around in circles?

Sorry but not much of that is correct and order is wrong.

 

[BroodXI]

Sorry but not much of that is correct and order is wrong.

plot it out on google earth. you can see in the various videos the location. or do you want me to do all the work for you?

 

[Alpo]

The complaint sure doesn't look like what I saw in the videos.

 

[dusty88]

I'm going to repost this because it answers several questions that keep coming up about location, pistol shot etc [video=youtube;e7SooO03bJ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SooO03bJ8&t=44s[/video]

 

[RobertTheBruce]

plot it out on google earth. you can see in the various videos the location. or do you want me to do all the work for you?

Huh? You asked the question.

 

[BroodXI]

[FONT=&quot]https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1298857915202314240?s=20


go to street view

[/FONT]

 

[OakRiver]

I had heard reports that the Rosenbaum, who was wearing the red shirt, after throwing the item attempted to disarm Rittenhaus by force.