Bill Gates: Yes, robots really are about to take your jobs.

[BehindBlueI's]

Source?

The pre-regulation industrial revolution in our own history and in the modern transitional economies such as China and India. Black market labor, such as migrant workers in US fields. Experience as a construction worker both before and after the waves of illegals reached Indiana and drove wages down below minimum wage. Hearing the phrase "if you fall, you're fired before you hit the ground. If you're ok, you're rehired when you stand back up."

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Source?

That was a general observational statement, so, no source.

And btw, exactly where on earth is this "Free Market" that you guys keep talking about?

 

[steveh_131]

The pre-regulation industrial revolution in our own history and in the modern transitional economies such as China and India. Black market labor, such as migrant workers in US fields. Experience as a construction worker both before and after the waves of illegals reached Indiana and drove wages down below minimum wage. Hearing the phrase "if you fall, you're fired before you hit the ground. If you're ok, you're rehired when you stand back up."

Some might consider quitting a job with such standards. You know, the thing where you tell your employer that you're not going to work any more unless they raise your pay or stop being douches or whatever you complaint is.

 

[jamil]

That was a general observational statement, so, no source.

And btw, exactly where on earth is this "Free Market" that you guys keep talking about?

We don't have one. Our market is corrupted by businesses, labor and government.

 

[steveh_131]

We don't have one. Our market is corrupted by [STRIKE]businesses[/STRIKE] corporate/government corruption, [STRIKE]labor[/STRIKE] labor/government corruption and government.

More precise, in my opinion.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

We don't have one. Our market is corrupted by businesses, labor and government.

Some say corrupted, some say "sensibly augmented" (the same things people say about boob jobs).

 

[jamil]

More precise, in my opinion.

Agreed.

 

[steveh_131]

I think you are misusing both the word 'sensibly' and the word 'augmented'.

 

[jamil]

Some say corrupted, some say "sensibly augmented" (the same things people say about boob jobs).

So powerful corporations, trade associations, and unions get to schmooze and bribe politicians to sway votes their way, and that's "sensibly augmented". I know, how about we pass a law that forces people to buy a product? That's a pretty augmented business model if you ask me. Or, how about we pass a law that bans the old thing that's cheap and works well so we can make people buy the new thing that they'd otherwise not buy because it's way more expensive and it sucks? Heh, we can even blame it on global warming to make it sound like we're all ecologically minded.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

More precise, in my opinion.

It's funny that, as these threads progress, the further it seems that I get pushed from my original point, which is that I agree with you on the corruption of the market. I'm just not as certain that it would be as perfect a world without any regulation. What I am certain of is that there is no reason to believe that our markets will ever exist without regulation, at least not in my lifetime. And, finally, I've said this before; we've all grown up and lived our lives under the cuddly-safe blanket of protection that was provided by those abhorrent government regulations, and I think that safe-ness might cloud the judgement of some as to whether or not they were really needed after all.

 

[MisterChester]

It's hilarious how some people here think that a totally "free" market can exist and do everything right, but that's simply a pipe dream. As long as we have a finite amount of resources, no market can ever be truly free.

 

[steveh_131]

It's funny that, as these threads progress, the further it seems that I get pushed from my original point, which is that I agree with you on the corruption of the market. I'm just not as certain that it would be as perfect a world without any regulation. What I am certain of is that there is no reason to believe that our markets will ever exist without regulation, at least not in my lifetime. And, finally, I've said this before; we've all grown up and lived our lives under the cuddly-safe blanket of protection that was provided by those abhorrent government regulations, and I think that safe-ness might cloud the judgement of some as to whether or not they were really needed after all.

They offered us no safety. Instead of making manufacturing jobs safer, they erased them.

Proper checks and balances like competition and civil liability are what brought us better jobs, better pay and better working conditions.

It's hilarious how some people here think that a totally "free" market can exist and do everything right, but that's simply a pipe dream. As long as we have a finite amount of resources, no market can ever be truly free.

This is fascinating. Have you published a book about economics, by chance? I'd like to buy it and read it so that I can learn.

 

[jamil]

It's funny that, as these threads progress, the further it seems that I get pushed from my original point, which is that I agree with you on the corruption of the market. I'm just not as certain that it would be as perfect a world without any regulation. What I am certain of is that there is no reason to believe that our markets will ever exist without regulation, at least not in my lifetime. And, finally, I've said this before; we've all grown up and lived our lives under the cuddly-safe blanket of protection that was provided by those abhorrent government regulations, and I think that safe-ness might cloud the judgement of some as to whether or not they were really needed after all.

I don't think anyone one is saying "without any regulation". Though we may disagree on what that regulation looks like. Some people think we need a big bureaucracy of detailed regulations. I think we need some simple laws. Don't defraud anyone. Don't coerce anyone. Don't conspire to fabricate market conditions. Don't take what's not yours. And honor your agreements. Maybe there are a few others, but there doesn't need to be many.

It's hilarious how some people here think that a totally "free" market can exist and do everything right, but that's simply a pipe dream. As long as we have a finite amount of resources, no market can ever be truly free.

I don't think what you think is a free market is the same thing I think is a free market.

 

[MisterChester]

This is fascinating. Have you published a book about economics, by chance? I'd like to buy it and read it so that I can learn.

No. What I'm saying can go back to the question of "what makes a free market free?" Is it simply regulations? What constitutes free? If we compare ourselves to the world then we certainly are more free than most places, but that doesn't mean we are as free as can be. There are always forces driving markets, like supply and demand. Or the invisible hand of the market. Do these forces make it any more or less free? I suppose I'm looking more at the philosophical aspect of it.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

It's hilarious how some people here think that a totally "free" market can exist and do everything right, but that's simply a pipe dream. As long as we have a finite amount of resources, no market can ever be truly free.

Reminds me of a commercial on TV awhile back where some guy named Dave lived in a "Perfect" world. He drove to work in a lane that was marked "Dave Only", and when he got there, a sign said "No Parking, except for Dave".

That's why I really doubt that anybody really does even want a free market. They may say they do, and they may even think that they do, but until I see a large angry group of people marching and carrying signs to protest regulations that benefit them, but that they object to on grounds that it infringes on someone else's freedom, I won't believe it.

 

[jamil]

Reminds me of a commercial on TV awhile back where some guy named Dave lived in a "Perfect" world. He drove to work in a lane that was marked "Dave Only", and when he got there, a sign said "No Parking, except for Dave".

That's why I really doubt that anybody really does even want a free market. They may say they do, and they may even think that they do, but until I see a large angry group of people marching and carrying signs to protest regulations that benefit them, but that they object to on grounds that it infringes on someone else's freedom, I won't believe it.

That's a good point. But I wouldn't say carrying signs to protest is the only way to verify consistency.

 

[steveh_131]

No. What I'm saying can go back to the question of "what makes a free market free?" Is it simply regulations? What constitutes free? If we compare ourselves to the world then we certainly are more free than most places, but that doesn't mean we are as free as can be. There are always forces driving markets, like supply and demand. Or the invisible hand of the market. Do these forces make it any more or less free? I suppose I'm looking more at the philosophical aspect of it.

Supply and demand should really be the only forces at work in a free market.

[h=2]free market[/h] noun : an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government

That's why I really doubt that anybody really does even want a free market. They may say they do, and they may even think that they do, but until I see a large angry group of people marching and carrying signs to protest regulations that benefit them, but that they object to on grounds that it infringes on someone else's freedom, I won't believe it.

Some of us do.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

That's a good point. But I wouldn't say carrying signs to protest is the only way to verify consistency.

Yeah but it does paint a good mental picture in the reader's mind. I'm big on mental pictures.

 

[Vigilant]

And I believe that there are "a lot of other labor requirements" that are necessary to compel industry to provide a safe workplace and a fair wage.

BS, WTF is a fair wage? An amount some self-entitled, no to low skilled, needs to raise his/her 4 children on in the lifestyle they WANT but do not have the means to get?

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Till they see what one computer virus does to a company's entire workforce.