Auditory exclusion

[Indy_Guy_77]

Never been in a gunfight.

Have been responsible for ONE AD in my life - early in my "gun career".

9mm - indoors. Barely heard / felt it.

-J-

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Hearing loss is not going to occur from one fight.
...

Is that like "You can't get pregnant from one time?"

Not many of us have been in gun fights, but I bet a lot of us hunt. How many hunters can remember having their ears ring after taking a shot on an animal? I can't.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Hearing loss absolutely can absolutely be connected to one incident. It depends what that incident is but to think that it takes multiple times to cause permanent damage is just wrong.

Agreed.

It may not be detectible with auditory testing and whatnot - but it can & does cause damage.

 

[Denny347]

Agreed.

It may not be detectible with auditory testing and whatnot - but it can & does cause damage.

This is a interesting topic that does not really get talked about much. I have yet to find a study that addresses this question specifically. I wonder that if there is no ringing then is there damage? I could understand that "AE" would block out the brain from hearing the big bang but there should still be ringing since the hairs still get damaged. I've fired a round w/o hearing protection and know how my ears ring for a LONG time afterwards. I also know how I felt after a police action shooting (I did not fire but the officer next to me did after a pursuit) and the shot was so muffled I was not sure that is what I heard. Also, no ringing at all.

HowStuffWorks "Why do loud noises cause your ears to ring?"

When you hear exceptionally loud noises, your stereocilia become damaged and mistakenly keep sending sound information to the auditory nerve cells. In the case of rock concerts and fireworks displays, the ringing happens because the tips of some of your stereocilia actually have broken off. You hear those false currents in the ringing in your head, called tinnitus. However, since you can grow these small tips back in about 24 hours [source: Preuss], the ringing is often temporary.

 

[Ericpwp]

I am reading this as my ears are ringing. Darn rock concerts.

 

[AndersonIN]

Tagging for interest!

All I know by experience.........it's generally seems to be MUCH LOUDER on the "receiving side" of the weapon than the "sending side"!

 

[remauto1187]

Is that like "You can't get pregnant from one time?"

Not many of us have been in gun fights, but I bet a lot of us hunt. How many hunters can remember having their ears ring after taking a shot on an animal? I can't.

Big difference between a shotgun/rifle a fair amount of distance from your ear vs a .45acp or .357magnum not far from your face and a substantially shorter barrel. Ive never had a deer shoot back at me so the deer hunting analogy isnt going to pass muster as a comparison. Go shoot 5 .357 magnums out of a 2" snubby WITHOUT hearing protection then tell me your ears dont hurt like fk! Dont forget to tell me all about how your ears protected themselves even though your ears are ringing for 4hrs after. (Dont do any of this!)

 

[Excalibur]

Also I do have options on what to grab depending what is closer. I got my Glock in 9mm and my AR as well.

I have been thinking of getting Surefire Ear-pros but I would need to practice putting them on fast

Also, I found this on Funker Tactical

[video=youtube;Tl9DOZOH66c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9DOZOH66c&list=UUo_0OLNDT9mhlALA-N_c8nw[/video]

 

[Denny347]

Big difference between a shotgun/rifle a fair amount of distance from your ear vs a .45acp or .357magnum not far from your face and a substantially shorter barrel. Ive never had a deer shoot back at me so the deer hunting analogy isnt going to pass muster as a comparison. Go shoot 5 .357 magnums out of a 2" snubby WITHOUT hearing protection then tell me your ears dont hurt like fk! Dont forget to tell me all about how your ears protected themselves even though your ears are ringing for 4hrs after. (Dont do any of this!)

That's the curious part. What if there is NO ringing at all? Again, I've accidentally fire without hearing protection and know how I felt for the next day. I also know that during an "oh ****" self defense shooting there was NO sign that a loud shot was fired. No ringing, no muffled noises afterward, it was as if there was never a shot fired. Not sure how to explain that (scientifically) and have no reason to believe there was any damage.

 

[Jack Burton]

Have a cop friend who had to retire with hearing disability because he was forced to fire his gun inside the patrol car.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Loud sounds cause damage to the cells. That's a known fact.

Your body's conscious reactions to those sounds doesn't bear witness to the fact that it may have suffered a teeny tiny bit of trauma to those hearing receptors.

Akin to waking up one day and going "whoa...where did that bruise come from". At the time - you didn't know that you bumped into the doorknob of your man-cave door - but you did. You didn't feel it at the time - but it still caused a contusion.

Loud sounds inside an enclosed space still make their way into the ear canal. We don't have protective flaps over our ears like seals do. (Real seals - not Navy-types). Those sound waves still impact the ear drum and pass through to the rest of the hearing mechanisms - then ultimately on to the auditory nerve and into the brain to be "heard/recognized".

Something sudden and unexpected (and over just as quickly) just may not give one's brain enough time to really process what has happened before the moment is over. It may also "overpower" the system to the point where you only register a certain amount of the sound...

But the fact remains: The sound waves (which are pressure waves) still make their way into the ear and still impact the bits & pieces that get impacted with all sounds.

And the repetitive nature of exposure to these high-decibel waves are what causes damage.

It's minute damage at each instance - but it's cumulative.

 

[Disposable Heart]

So that means hard core mothers like Larry Vickers should be, like, super negative deaf, right?

In before the "I'm going to deafen myself on purpose to be hardcore" types come in.

 

[cedartop]

That's the curious part. What if there is NO ringing at all? Again, I've accidentally fire without hearing protection and know how I felt for the next day. I also know that during an "oh ****" self defense shooting there was NO sign that a loud shot was fired. No ringing, no muffled noises afterward, it was as if there was never a shot fired. Not sure how to explain that (scientifically) and have no reason to believe there was any damage.

If my old mind could get remember where I read this it would be helpful. You are not the first person to have this experience. I am almost certain I have seen studies that show just what you are talking about is possible, but dang it all I just can't locate it.

 

[Lammchop93]

The only thing I can relate to is that when I'm target shooting, if I forgot to throw my ear pro in, they will ring after the first shot. However when I'm out hunting, when I shoot my .44mag for deer, my ears don't ring at all. To be honest, both deer I have taken, I do not actually remember pulling the trigger. I remember seeing the deer in my scope, and seeing the deer jump after the shot, but I never actually remember pulling the trigger. Maybe I'm just in the zone or something.

 

[pack-indy]

On Combat talks about 3 physiological effects.
Auditory Exclusion
Temporal Distortion
and (can't remember the term) a deadening of the sense of touch.

This. I have a copy that you can have OP if I can find it. Shoot me a PM if interested.

 

[Denny347]

In the end, who gives a ****? If it happens, your hearing is the least of your concerns.

 

[actaeon277]

In the end, who gives a ****? If it happens, your hearing is the least of your concerns.

Ha ha.
Tried to rep ya.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Grossman refers to a physical manifestation of auditory exclusion in "on combat". He likens it to "a form of aural or auditory blink in which loud noises are physically and mechanically muted or silenced for a brief moment. There is not even the usual ringing int he ears afterward".

I don't have a paper copy, so cannot give the page number, but my kindle puts it at about 16% into the book.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I wonder if adrenaline dump has anything to do with any of it...

 

[ScouT6a]

I spent 22 1/2 years in combat arms in the Army. (17 1/2 years Infantry and 5 years Air Defense Artillery) I now wear hearing aids in both ears at the age of 43. Most hearing loss occurs over time. You don't notice it. You take a hearing test one day and they say, "You have high frequency hearing loss."
I have shot since I was around 8 years old and we always used hearing protection, even for .22 rifles. When you are in combat, you don't have time in most cases to put in hearing protection. You certainly don't have time when your vehicle hits an IED or when rockets and mortars are on final approach. Yes, I have Tenitis too and my Audiologist says that can come from the hearing loss. According to him, there is still a lot they don't know about Tenitis.
Protect your hearing now. If you have time to slip on muffs or put in plugs before you pull the trigger, do it. Target shooting, hunting or otherwise. The electronic muffs are great that allow for normal hearing until the gunshot. My hearing aids were issued by the VA but a good pair of electronic muffs are WAY cheaper than the worst pair of hearing aids.