Armed US Soldiers in Minnesota Streets

[jeremy]

If the president said "I need the military to disarm Indianapolis." No disaster, etc., just confiscation.

LOL!
Nice for the extremely vague example...

That is not a Legal Order firstly...
Second, how many Troops do you think it would take to disarm a City the Size of Indianapolis?!

 

[IN_Sheepdog]

I would refuse, I took an oath to uphold the Constitution, I would not obey any orders that go against this sacred piece of paper.[/QUOTE]

Then you obviously don't work for the TSA....

Dept of Homeland Security... trashing the 4th Amendment since 2002!

 

[hacksawfg]

LOL!
Nice for the extremely vague example...

That is not a Legal Order firstly...
Second, how many Troops do you think it would take to disarm a City the Size of Indianapolis?!

How about this.

Situation 1 SHTF. National Guard is called to secure an area. Someone is accused of inciting riots, upon entering his house you find guns, explosives, etc. that could be used against US troops. Your CO says "Shoot this f***er."

Legal or not, the order could in theory still be given. Not to say there won't be trouble later for the person who gave the order, but do you do follow orders and do it?

How about you just find guns in his house? The guy may just be bugging in, all you have is an accusation. Your CO says take his weapons. Without proof of wrongdoing, do you?

 

[Booya]

I didn't read all the comments here, but the first few pages... I think we may blowing this out of proportion a bit. It's a National Guard unit. They are likely located directly in a semi residential area. When I was attached to a reserve Marine unit we used the surrounding streets on MANY occasions. If the CO says we're going on a hump, then guess what we're going on a hump regardless of where. Not to mention that training in the field nowadays may not be the most conducive training to current combat environment.

Is this any different then me taking a 20 vehicle convoy down the highway to move a unit to and from the field for training? We all have our weapons inside the vehicle, hell we're disrupting traffic a bit also. Not all the troops stateside are located on a major base, but they still need to train.

 

[Pocketman]

How about this.

Situation 1 SHTF. National Guard is called to secure an area. Someone is accused of inciting riots, upon entering his house you find guns, explosives, etc. that could be used against US troops. Your CO says "Shoot this f***er."

Legal or not, the order could in theory still be given. Not to say there won't be trouble later for the person who gave the order, but do you do follow orders and do it?

How about you just find guns in his house? The guy may just be bugging in, all you have is an accusation. Your CO says take his weapons. Without proof of wrongdoing, do you?

I don't know if this question was directed at jeremy, but I'll give it a shot (no pun intended).
Our orders were to "secure," so that's what I'd do. Let local LE handle it from there.

 

[jeremy]

How about this.

Situation 1 SHTF. National Guard is called to secure an area. Someone is accused of inciting riots, upon entering his house you find guns, explosives, etc. that could be used against US troops. Your CO says "Shoot this f***er."

Legal or not, the order could in theory still be given. Not to say there won't be trouble later for the person who gave the order, but do you do follow orders and do it?

Also, NOT a Legal Order.

And any Troop following a Command of that type will find themselves firmly punished by the Military. Interesting twist is if the The Guard Unit is NOT on Federal Orders, The Soldiers following the Command would be subjected to the States Legalities then...

What could be done, and probably would be done, in your example. The persons in that residence would be taken into custody by LEOs, unless the Governor of the Said Jurisdiction has granted Police Powers to the Units working in the AO.

How about you just find guns in his house? The guy may just be bugging in, all you have is an accusation. Your CO says take his weapons. Without proof of wrongdoing, do you?

Two words for ya here, Evidence and Intelligence...

Not to mention the fact that this is the purview of the Local LEOs to do...

 

[RyanV]

It is a road march guys, chill out. They are just out for some exercise and practicing some patrol techniques.

 

[hacksawfg]

My point was merely to say that people are blowing it out of proportion. People shouldn't be afraid of things like this drill because members of the military (with probably some exceptions) understand Constitutional rights and wouldn't follow through with orders to disarm, etc.

I'm betting you don't have too much to fear from the UN either, look at the job they've done lately with Iran and Syria; they have no teeth (or are very hesitant to use them), and I'm pretty sure UN peacekeepers would have no desire to come into a country where so much of the populace is armed and ready to protect their freedoms. They don't seem to be too big on the use of force.

 

[.45 Dave]

I am curious....

If an exercise were conducted where armed soldiers marched through the streets of a neighborhood in Indiana as a drill while citizens took up armed positions on their private property, would the actions of the citizens be dismissed as a drill or an exercise?

Interesting thought! It would be interesting to test that out. In Indiana you would not be breaking any laws by being on your property with a weapon. So long as you do not point them at the soldiers or make threatening gestures there is nothing they could do about it.

 

[jeremy]

Some of our troops might have an issue with it but I bet the Russian and other foreign troops being "trained" here would love to kick in some American doors.

I bet they want nothing to do with it...

 

[Blackhawk2001]

i'm not a vet so please forgive me if this question is stupid....... would we hear the missiles and helicopters coming?

jake

All we have in the way of arms for helicopters in Indiana are the 240s on the Assault Company Blackhawks. You'll definitely hear them coming before you see them. On the other hand, for all of you with the libertarian paranoid bent, there's a Reserve Apache unit right down the road at Ft. Knox - and you never know who's gonna show up at Cp Atterbury or Muscatatuk. Enjoy!

 

[bobzilla]

I bet they want nothing to do with it...

agreed. You think Iraq was bad for clearing out a resistance? Or afghanistan? China/Russia both know that it would be far worse here.

 

[Booya]

Interesting thought! It would be interesting to test that out. In Indiana you would not be breaking any laws by being on your property with a weapon. So long as you do not point them at the soldiers or make threatening gestures there is nothing they could do about it.

Nor anything they would care to do about it. My guys would be laughing and pointing, unless someone was actually making threatening gestures, then we'd call the police.

I'd bet a testicle the "armed troops" don't have 1 round on them, with the exception of the "Guardian Angel" who caries an M9 with a loaded mag. Typical anytime the weapons come out for safety purposes.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Oh come on now! We all know whats going on, its just a quick hike threw a quite neighborhood to a Rally point DUH. Normal training before the natural disaster hits. You all are a bunch of worry warts.

Indeed! Shoot the hurricane/earthquake/flood dead they will!

 

[drillsgt]

I am not in the Mn Guard, and am just guessing at what I seen from the pics. To me it appears that the unit is just "humping" down the street teaching new guys to move as a unit and maintain their position in the order of march...

This is likely what is going on. It's a national guard unit. When I was in MI my reserve unit was located in downtown Flint, in the heart of the hood. We had to do PT around the neighborhoods and often did road marches, land nav etc. just like you see here. We weren't thinking any nefarious thoughts beyond when the day was going to be over and we could go home and enjoy what was left of our weekend.

 

[CBR1000rr]

Question for current/past military members on INGO. If you received orders that contradicted the Constitution (which you swore to uphold), would you follow the orders, or respectfully refuse? I have to think that most US troops at least would recognize what was happening, but you never know I guess (yes, Germany went down that road, but they didn't have our Constitutional rights either).

Please forgive me if my opinion has already been voiced as I didn't read every post following this question.

I think it was Tommy Lee Jones in the movie Men In Black who said "a person is intelligent, people are idiots." This may not be the exact quote but it is the basis of what he is getting at and the sole reason it is entirely plausible that we will see armed military in our streets executing orders most of us feel are in clear violation of our constitution. Furthermore, it is entirely plausible that many members of our armed forces will disagree with the orders they are given but will comply because it is what "the group" is doing. They may fear being an outcast or possibly becoming the enemy themselves.

I don't know the numbers but I would believe that if the majority consensus is to execute the given orders, the orders will be carried out with little to no resistance from those whom oppose.

This, along with all other domestic training exercises taking place on our city streets, isn't just to indoctrinate the civilian population and prepare them for the coming events but to condition the mind of the soldiers that this is their life and we are the enemy. It's a double edged evil sword......

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I am not in the Mn Guard, and am just guessing at what I seen from the pics. To me it appears that the unit is just "humping" down the street teaching new guys to move as a unit and maintain their position in the order of march...

OK . . . sooooo . . . what's the big deal, Lucille?

Here in Lafayette the ING drives around with NVGs and "patrols" around SIA and somehow Lafayette remains free from martial law.

Our boys are training, how can I help?

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

This incident may be absolutely nothing other than training, but many here seem to think that "this will never happen". Maybe they should all watch this video to be reminded it already has. Keep in mind this was National Guard and LEO's.

http://youtu.be/_wfp7qBAgGM

 

[alpha0486]

These exercises are designed to help train the military in MOUT or Military Operations in Urban Terrain. While training areas are getting better and better, nothing can replace an actually city. Walking down streets in these cities allows these soldiers to get an idea of what it would be like patrolling overseas. I have taken part in these and they do work, getting junior enlisted an idea of patrolling in built up areas. So whatever other motives are out there, they do help train units and if that helps them overseas, then so be it.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

This incident may be absolutely nothing other than training, but many here seem to think that "this will never happen". Maybe they should all watch this video to be reminded it already has. Keep in mind this was National Guard and LEO's.

http://youtu.be/_wfp7qBAgGM

Keep in mind this was a national-scale disaster (equivalent to the Northridge Earthquake in California in 1989) and the GOVERNOR had declared martial law. This was STATE government exceeding its authority, not the feds. Now that may not make a difference to you, but think of the difference between what the folks in New Orleans would allow - as indicated by the kind of mayor and governor they elected - versus what the citizens of Indiana would allow based on the people we tend to elect.