Armed passerby confronts woman's attacker outside school

[charles.wolff]

Hopefully not a dupe!

Linky

 

[mdwildcat04]

"If it saves just one life........"

Were have I heard that before?

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Aggravated assault?

He stabbed her in the neck with a knife, right?

No attempted murder????

 

[daddymikey1975]

Aggravate assault seems mild.

Why did the ccw holder not fire? In a similar situation would it be prudent to draw and firmly command that a perp stop before squeezing the trigger ? Is it more situation dependent? Not sure how I would react in a similar situation but I would definitely have intervened as well.

 

[-Rooster-]

Aggravate assault seems mild.

Why did the ccw holder not fire? In a similar situation would it be prudent to draw and firmly command that a perp stop before squeezing the trigger ? Is it more situation dependent? Not sure how I would react in a similar situation but I would definitely have intervened as well.

Hard telling without being there. Certainly there are situations in which the weapon can be used successfully without killing. Remember that squeezing the trigger is, after all, the last resort. Even if the armed citizen intended to shoot, there may not have been a safe and clear shot in the scuffle.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Aggravated assault?

He stabbed her in the neck with a knife, right?

No attempted murder????

The Boxcar County District Attorney may file this. What the police write down in the blank does not control.

 

[churchmouse]

Appears he did the correct thing. Is there an issue carrying around a school in that area????
Was he there to pick up his child??
Was he just passing by and witnessed this assault.

 

[Dybber]

Agreed, aggravated assault seems light......he must me an illegal alien.

These are usually the stories you don't hear about, it's only the people who shoot innocent people we hear about.

 

[VN Vet]

I hate bad guys especially bad guys that do harm to children and good women. However, that's just me.

 

[beachhead40]

question about schools and carrying, If my wife drives, am i allowed to carry, i dont leave the car... when we drop off my son to school

 

[ViperJock]

question about schools and carrying, If my wife drives, am i allowed to carry, i dont leave the car... when we drop off my son to school

My understanding is that of you are dropping off/picking up and you have a LTCH AND you and the gun both stay in the car you are good.

I don't think it matters who is driving.

 

[long coat]

My understanding is that of you are dropping off/picking up and you have a LTCH AND you and the gun both stay in the car you are good.

I don't think it matters who is driving.

It does matter. You (LTCH holder) must be driving.

 

[garagegunmaker]

It does matter. You (LTCH holder) must be driving.

He is correct

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
**** Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
********(1) A:
************(A) federal;
************(B) state; or
************(C) local;
********law enforcement officer.
********(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
************(A) a school; or
************(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
********to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
********(3) A person who:
************(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
************(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

 

[Movealongmovealong]

Too bad that armed citizen didn't do the taxpayers a favor on John Q. Knifewielder.

 

[beachhead40]

So in all honesty, i could ask that school for authorization?

 

[Bill of Rights]

So in all honesty, i could ask that school for authorization?

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: You can ask. I'd guess that you'll face a "runaround", as the principal will tell you he doesn't have the authority, you need to see the superintendent. The superintendent will tell you either that that's a decision to be made at the school level or that the school board needs to approve. If you go to the school board, they'll hide behind there being several of them in order to shift the blame for who denies you to others.

Per the letter of the law here in Indiana,

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.
IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

For the sake of brevity, I'll only address "on school property" (which the statute defines as land in common with and/or surrounding a class building, IIRC. I'm not looking at the statute other than that quoted above at present, so this is from memory.) Taking the red text from above:

This chapter does not apply to A person who has been employed or authorized by a school to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

Translation: It is not a Class D felony to possess a firearm on school property if you have been employed or authorized by a school to be a security guard, (to) perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other school-authorized activity. Technically, then, if you're asked to be a "room parent" or work in the library or referee a game on campus, you'd be good to go.

NOT SO FAST!​

I ran that idea past one of our lawyer members and was told that the courts would rule against you even despite the letter of the law specifically excepting you. Solution: get it in writing, have a copy of that written permission in hand before entering a school while armed, and with all that done, STILL have an attorney on retainer before embarking on this quest. You do NOT want to spend time in prison if it is avoidable.

To reiterate: Please, do not take this post as reason or justification to break the law. I am not and will not be responsible for those who do not heed this warning. You might be in the right, but as my father, rest his soul, who was an attorney, used to say: It can be very expensive to be right.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jve153]

He is correct

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
**** Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
********(1) A:
************(A) federal;
************(B) state; or
************(C) local;
********law enforcement officer.
********(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
************(A) a school; or
************(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
********to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
********(3) A person who:
************(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
************(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

so that effectively means that only one of the kids parents can be carrying when dropping little johnny off at school? that is horse

 

[beachhead40]

so what i have done (which now i will not) is as we approach his school (im passanger) Unholster weapon and place in glove box, get out walk my son into school. come back to truck, drive away....then i pull back out of glove box and reholster. from leo is this wrong? since my truck is my property is that ok??

 

[Bill of Rights]

so what i have done (which now i will not) is as we approach his school (im passanger) Unholster weapon and place in glove box, get out walk my son into school. come back to truck, drive away....then i pull back out of glove box and reholster. from leo is this wrong? since my truck is my property is that ok??

If you are the passenger, you don't even have to lock it up. The catch is that whoever is driving has to lawfully possess the firearm (you handing it to someone who is legally not prohibited from having a gun constitutes legal possession). As long as you are not armed on school property and as long as the gun is in the car with the lawful possesser, you should be good to go.

Standard disclaimers:
I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice.
If you need legal advice, contact a licensed attorney.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Alamo]

The "armed passerby" that is the subject of the OP apparently posted his version in the comments section of a "TruthaboutGuns" post:

DGUotD II: Concealed Carry Texan Stops Stabbing at San Antonio School | The Truth About Guns

He commented under the screen name "nisord:"

I am the guy that pulled my KelTec P3AT on the guy yesterday morning. Just to clear up the confusion, I was walking down S. St. Mary’s street IN FRONT OF Bonham Academy. I first thought that the guy was beating someone, and I ran toward him ordering him to stop. He looked at me and ignored me. When I saw the blood and the knife I was about 10 or 15 ft. away from him. I pulled my gun, aimed it at him, and yelled at him again. Again he looked at me and ignored me. When he began stabbing her again I yelled to him as loud as I could. He again turned and looked at me. I told him “dude do you see what I have aimed at your head?” He immediately dropped the knife and asked me to call 911. All of this happened in the middle of S. St. Mary’s street, not in the school parking lot. I was not charged with anything.

...

Thanks to all who have given me support and kudos for what happened yesterday. I got my CHL about 18 months ago and have often wondered how I would react if needed to a situation like this. My wife and I are avid walkers. I got my CHL because I often walk in “high crime” areas at various hours of the day or night. My wife has never been very happy about me carrying a gun. When this happened yesterday, as soon as I heard the lady screaming for help I started toward her car. I could here my wife calling me back, but I just couldn’t stop. I thought that he was just punching her until I saw the knife. To my amazement afterwards, I was very calm. I wasn’t near as nervous as I thought I would be, and the gun was steady as I aimed at him. Several comments on websites, and even some in person comments from friends (including police officers) suggest that I should have just shot him. As it turned out, I didn’t need to, and now that my wife has witnessed the situation, she is much more comfortable about me carrying a weapon. Some have called my actions “heroic”. I’d rather believe that this is just normal reaction for a law abiding citizen when he/she sees someone in distress.




On the TexasCHLforum.com, a poster who says he knows the woman said she pulled thru surgery and is doing better.

As far as school parking lots go in Texas, a holder of a concealed handgun permit is not allowed to carry on the "premises" of a school. Under Texas law, "premises" is defined as the building, not the grounds around it. So parking lot, sidewalk, etc are not off limits, only the building itself (unless the school gives permission). Didn't matter in this case, since the stabbing took place across the street from the school, not on any school property.