Ar questions

[Expat]

I'm not buying the home build on Armslist where the guy always says something like: "I slapped this together, function checks flawlessly, zero rounds fired, blah blah blah"
But I wouldn't hesitate to buy a rifle where the ad stated: Churchmouse-"I built this."
...big difference

But CM and some other people on here are a little different. It is kind of like you know them. You know that they aren't going to be lying to you about what they are selling and would be more likely to try to work something out if it was a dud.

 

[Vigilant]

I'm not buying the home build on Armslist where the guy always says something like: "I slapped this together, function checks flawlessly, zero rounds fired, blah blah blah"
But I wouldn't hesitate to buy a rifle where the ad stated: Churchmouse-"I built this."
...big difference

Little known fact, CM lubes his builds with burger grease!

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

Little known fact, CM lubes his builds with burger grease!

With extra cheese!

 

[JJFII]

Don't forget proper compensation for the time to write the ad and compile a proper parts list.

so looking at any website that sells both firearms and parts you see an increase in cost from parts to built...that is labor rate. Its up to the individual seller what they charge for that and I cant believe there are socialist/marxist people here who dont believe in a free market system.

why do you care so much what a person charges for their time?

If a guy wants to buy a $130 kit from PSA and charge $400 for it from his website or $200 from his store..why are you so pissed at this? This is the AMERICAN WAY! This is CAPITALISM...if you dont like Capitalism, I am sure there are other countries you may want to think about moving too.

No one is forcing you to buy it. I moved to a town where all three gun shops up price stuff by 50% or more. An Anderson Lower is going to cost me $100 bought at the local store and $65 if I buy it from another store and have it shipped to them. ($45 for the Lower and the Local store charges $20 FFL fee). They dont care about the cost because they get a quick $20 for doing PAPERWORK.

 

[Alpo]

Well, I mean, if you build your lego's with a hammer and a chisel your obviously going to have an issue. I agree for 45b is a legit profession, repairing a firearm is tougher than assembling an ar15. But there is no magic skill or secret to squeezing a few pins and torqueing a barrel nut. Some people have trouble putting the right fuel in their car, and some cannot change a tire or brake pads, I wouldn't suggest they venture into assembling their own ar, but I still think 8/10 random people could build a perfectly functional ar with written or visual instruction and in spec parts. Some mechanically inclined people can assemble out of spec parts to run flawlessly (my first 300blk and ar build, had a barrel that was too thick to let the gas block slide into place. I put the block in the oven and the barrel in the freezer and voila slide right on. Some would turn to sandpaper or hammers.) So I digress, sometimes the ar15 lego kits are a bit advanced, and some of us like to put mega blocks with our legos. Maybe not everyone can do it, but most mechanically inclined people can assemble an ar easily.

I think your "8/10" estimate is highly optimistic.

CAS shooters are generally pretty knowledgeable about their equipment, but I've had a guy bring me 2 Ruger Vaqueros....in a box....disassembled....with a tear in his eye asking me if I could put humpty and dumpty back together again. (Yes, about 10 mins work for each.)

Not everyone knows how to use a torque wrench. Also, those great videos on youtube sometimes give out bad info. I looked at one the other day on gas key torque spec. The movie star video dude said 40 ft. lbs. Good luck with that if you know how to use a torque wrench. The spec, I believe is around 40 INCH lbs.

 

[Vigilant]

so looking at any website that sells both firearms and parts you see an increase in cost from parts to built...that is labor rate.

Parting together a BCM Reece-16 ELW with 15”MCMR from upper and lower costs About the same as ($1294) a complete one from G and R Tactical($1299). Parting together one piece at a time is more money than a complete weapons system. (I stopped when the individual parts were at $1299, and hadn’t completed the build yet.)

 

[Ggreen]

Parting together a BCM Reece-16 ELW with 15”MCMR from upper and lower costs About the same as ($1294) a complete one from G and R Tactical($1299). Parting together one piece at a time is more money than a complete weapons system. (I stopped when the individual parts were at $1299, and hadn’t completed the build yet.)

Stop hating capitalism lol. Jfii please don't take any of this personal. Info tends to be a no bs zone. I don't think you will find anyone here that will pay you 100 to squeeze some point in place on a budget upper and lower. Armslist, maybe during the election season, I may or may not have sold some fmk lowers I completed for a hefty profit. But it is not that way now. We don't have capitalism we are just realistic enthusiasts who get tired of seeing the same overpriced budget builds bumping Armslists front page day after day for literally two years. Builds by notable and accomplished smiths even sell for less than parts retail. We know because we've been watching and buying in Indiana for a long time. Please don't take the offhand jabs personally, we all take or beatings as we become a part of the community here.

 

[JJFII]

Stop hating capitalism lol. Jfii please don't take any of this personal. Info tends to be a no bs zone. I don't think you will find anyone here that will pay you 100 to squeeze some point in place on a budget upper and lower. Armslist, maybe during the election season, I may or may not have sold some fmk lowers I completed for a hefty profit. But it is not that way now. We don't have capitalism we are just realistic enthusiasts who get tired of seeing the same overpriced budget builds bumping Armslists front page day after day for literally two years. Builds by notable and accomplished smiths even sell for less than parts retail. We know because we've been watching and buying in Indiana for a long time. Please don't take the offhand jabs personally, we all take or beatings as we become a part of the community here.

oh I dont take any forum posting personal..its the web you need thick skin. I dont say anything I wouldnt say at my dinner table while drinking a beer and even if it gets heated, its all good.

I just laugh when someone posts they wouldnt buy a lego AR15 for about the same as what the parts would cost plus a few more bucks. But think nothing of "Like new Blah Blah blah" and for about the same as a local GS but you dont pay tax, you dont do a NIC its cash and carry...but the firearm IS NOT A LEGO??? You have no clue what the real reason its forsale and until you have put 500+ down range you dont know, but fixing a non-lego isnt cheap because parts and labor and SKILL to repair a non-lego can cost nearly the same as the firearm.

A PSA $400 AR15 Kit on Armslist built by "Bubba 3 thumbs" for $550 comes with $50 lower. So I am spending an extra $100. I see nothing wrong with this. I wouldnt buy it at that price, but I wouldnt care if someone was. Now when Bubba 3-thumbs is selling a PSA kit for $1200, comes with super-sniper-seal-team-6 UTG red dot.. now I face palm. I am saying you really really dont see a lot of those. They are there, just not as much as people say.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[Trigger Time]

I "facepalm" reading all of these gun experts all over the internet. Then I wonder why they used to bring me their unlubed, misaligned, unstaked, untorqued, shotty AR's if they knew so much about building and buying them? Where are all these experts in the real world? I want to learn from them.

 

[JJFII]

I "facepalm" reading all of these gun experts all over the internet. Then I wonder why they used to bring me their unlubed, misaligned, unstaked, untorqued, shotty AR's if they knew so much about building and buying them? Where are all these experts in the real world? I want to learn from them.

In California we had things called "build parties". Where a bunch of guys would get together with newer guys to help them assemble ARs and Build AKs. There was always that one guy who whipped out Bubba's bottle opener and said that was all that was needed to install a barrel nut and then there was always a guy using a screwdriver to finish off roll pins... With over 20 guys in a garage working in 4 or 5 groups its kinda hard to watch um all.

 

[BOWTIE72]

I agree

 

[BOWTIE72]

True, many people bought stuff in the election scare for ridiculous prices and now are feeling the effects of falling prices.

 

[Farmer jones]

Yes so many options now days to create the gun you want. And pride in building it yourself

 

[hANNAbONE]

and if I buy a high end build but it turns out to be jacked up, who is more likely to stand behind it? DD, BCM, Larue, LMT or the resident local build expert on the internet or the local gun show....

'xactly....

 

[Expat]

I agree

yep

 

[Deimos]

There's a butt for every seat. Really though, I don't understand why some people consider a Colt worth a premium.

Especially when 90% of the time, only the lower receiver is Colt and everything else is random manufactured parts lol.

 

[firefighterjohn]

If you arent on a budget then buy a factory complete; bcm, larue, knights, dd, pof, lmt

Last time I was in my LGS, I wasn't under budget constraints but passed on a very nice LNIB-condition BCM RECCE 16 at a great price...shoulda picked it up. I went back 2 days later...it was gone...aarrgh! Buy once cry once? Didn't buy and cried!

 

[LarryC]

Then why are there numerous posts on the webs about “why my rifle be not workin’?” And, why can’t “factory” built rifles make it through a weekend class? I will state again, AR’s, at least good ones, aren’t LEGO builds. If in fact the LEGO thing were true, there wouldn’t be the 1000’s of interwebz posts about “why won’t my M4gery werx?” 23&P is simply a, well, not many can answer that, yet they wanna be AR smits?

No disrespect to your opinion butI kinda of disagree with you! I am a retired Engineer that sometimes purchased and sometimes designed automated machinery to assemble automotive controls and switches. I was responsible for troubleshooting, debugging and educating maintenance personal. I did this for near 40 years. I have assembled (not built) several AR's in various calibers. Other than a dedicated wrench the only other tools I used were India stones and Cratex (Polishing) sticks.

I haven't fired a lot of rounds in every rifle, but between my son and I have fired enough without ANY issues including accuracy that I am sure of the builds. The AR only requires 3 things to be accurate one is the Bolt, 2nd the Barrel and third the operator!

Granted some operators want/require certain triggers and or optics / sights to be accurate but others can do well with Iron up to 200~300 yards.

Regarding the top brand names parts VS low cost Mil spec parts, in 99.9% of the items I have inspected they are made of the same steel grade, heat treated the same way, although some may be plated / coated differently and or have some polishing required to remove burrs there is very little if any difference in the actual part that will affect either function or accuracy.

Certainly there are some ways to screw up an AR assembly process, using the wrong buffer weight, miss-assembling the trigger assembly, leaving out parts, leaving obvious burrs on parts, failure to lube required areas etc. that most people would not do, with the number of people assembling AR's, the only ones posting about problems are those that did one of the above. I would wager that there are 50 to 100 rifles assembled that work perfectly for each one that fails.

Granted some of the "economy" barrels and Bolts will never achieve the accuracy of the High priced barrels (especially those sold matched in sets) but almost all will satisfy the average shooter that just wants an Ar to plink, SHTF, short range target or hunting rifle.

 

[Hohn]

I've been asked so many times what I recomend someone buy when it comes to an AR. My best advice; buy ANY factory built BCM upper you can afford and put it on a complete lower. For budget brands I'd recomend Aero. I like them a lot.
Then, save up for a QUALITY optic. Like an aimpoint or eotech or trijicon scope (not mro in my opinion and experience).
Then save up for a factory built BCM lower receiver so you have a complete bcm gun.
Take the AERO lower and repeat the above by buying another BCM upper. Mayve .300 blackout this time?

If you arent on a budget then buy a factory complete; bcm, larue, knights, dd, pof, lmt

This X1000.

My first AR was a buy. Why? Because I didn't know how to build at the time, I wanted a quality rifle, and it came with so many specialty parts and such that I couldn't have bought it cheaper if building myself. Do you think DD will sell you a handguard cheaper than they "Sell" it to themselves? Likewise-- who gets a better price on a Geissele trigger-- me or DD?

And yes, I paid probably way more than I needed to for a "premium" AR. I don't really care. I got a turnkey rifle that run and runs and is as accurate as I'll ever need.


But-- with one good quality AR factory built and ready to go, I will never buy a complete assembled rifle again. I am building lowers and buying uppers if I can find an upper that's exactly to my liking. The nice thing about ARs is that you can tailor a lower to a particular purpose and reuse it. If you build ONE lower setup for precision work with a magpul PRS and a high end trigger, for example, then you can use it with every "precision" upper-- your .204, your 223 Wylde, your 6.5G and so forth.

Then build a "combat" lower with maybe a cheaper BCM buttstock and milspec trigger and some add-ons for robustness.



The entirety of the reason that "muh bild ain't work" postings come from guys who are trying to "improve" on what already works. It's classic "if it ain't broke, fix it until it is."

"My gun doesn't run properly!" Well, maybe because you put some stupid over-heavy buffer in it, or tried to run 300blk both supersonic and suppressed without an adjustable gas block.

VERY rarely will someone put together a rifle that mimics a regular M4 or M16 configuration and have it not run. And if it doesn't run, it's because of a workmanship error (usually gas port alignment).


So, you can EASILY build a rifle that runs if you 1) don't be stupid with parts selection and 2) exercise reasonable competency in putting it together.


In other words, stay off ARFCOM and you'll be fine.