Any Legal P22 pop bottle adapters?

[MattCFII]

I heard there was a guy on eBay shortly after the P22 came out that was selling thread adapters for P22s that would allow you to thread on a pop bottle that would do a decent job of suppressing when paired with material in the bottle like shaving cream.

He wasn't registering these and of course the ATF shut him down. But is there anybody out there that makes a legal one that you can pay the tax stamp on? Because of the low cost of the adapter, it could be a good entry level into NFA. I still think overall value for entry level for my P22 would be a TAC65 or similar, but the tinker value of the pop bottle adapter could be a lot of fun to see what stuff you could put in the bottle to see what works.

 

[Scutter01]

As far as I know, it's the pop bottle and not the thread adapter that's regulated as a suppressor. Not sure I'd want to pay a $200 stamp on a pop bottle that's not likely to last long.

 

[colt45er]

I am no NFA expert but I am thinking no for a few reasons.

The first is the tax stamp is $200. To mean that is an expensive adapter for a pop bottle that will probably work marginal at best. On top of that, wont your sights be blocked??

In addition, I believe you need special paperwork to create a supressor. The adapter is not a supressor, the pop bottle woudl be....

I would say run far away from anythign like this.

 

[colt45er]

As far as I know, it's the pop bottle and not the thread adapter that's regulated as a suppressor. Not sure I'd want to pay a $200 stamp on a pop bottle that's not likely to last long.

Dang you Scutter you are too fast

 

[Scutter01]

In addition, I believe you need special paperwork to create a supressor. The adapter is not a supressor, the pop bottle woudl be....

It's a Form 1, the same as if you're manufacturing a short-barreled rifle.

 

[VUPDblue]

There used to be a source for the adapters. It was legal, but they are a rarity now because they didn't sell well. The adapter was the "firearm" and the bottles were considered the replaceable part (read: Wipes). Surprisingly enough, that method can work well depending on the medium in the bottle. I saw one work VERY well with shaving cream.

 

[Bulgy74]

Ah, you beat me to it VUPD!

Yep, perfectly legal to buy as a supressor with disposable wipes.

I'd rather buy an Outback since I drink my soda from a can!

 

[Scutter01]

There used to be a source for the adapters. It was legal, but they are a rarity now because they didn't sell well. The adapter was the "firearm" and the bottles were considered the replaceable part (read: Wipes). Surprisingly enough, that method can work well depending on the medium in the bottle. I saw one work VERY well with shaving cream.

Oh, in that case I'd be interested! Wonder why they didn't sell well?

 

[KokomoDave]

We used the 1 liter pop bottles so prevalent in California when I was stationed there.Everyone had adapters for our High Standard pistols.We filled them with Styrofoam packing peanuts and duct tape in an X across the bottom with a pilot hole .250".Worked well on shooting lights,guard dogs,etc.

 

[CarmelHP]

They were selling these for .45s in Shotgun News back in the '80s before ATF stepped in. Those were made of plastic and would wear out/break very quickly.

 

[MattCFII]

Thanks for the info guys! It seems as usual VUPD knows a lot. I agree that a tradtional can would be the best option but the pure fun of seeing what works in a plain old pop bottle to suppress the shot has an attraction for me. Partly because it is like building your own suppressor multiple times without applying and paying for a stamp each time. Allows a expermential noob like me to better understand the physics. Plus the probably $250 or so price with stamp included sounds good.

I believe the most popular ones in the 80s where marketed for MAC10. But I didn't know they were made out of plastic.

Really anybody with a machine shop should be able turn these out but the ATF issues would be the hardest part. There are already a few guys who make their own P22 thread adapters for suppressors/brakes/flash hiders "all" would have to do is redesign the current adapter and then become a Class 2 manufacter, sounds easy ;D

 

[rkba_net]

Suppressor parts have been regulated just like a complete suppressor since the passage of the Gun Owners Protection Act in 1986. It would not be very smart IMHO to possess an "adapter" that fits a barrel and a soda bottle.

 

[bdj357]

Years ago I saw I guy who made multiple "adapters" using JB weld and the existing bottle tops. I am not quite sure how he did it but he filled the liter bottles with that Great Stuff expanding foam and shot through it. It was a long time ago, but I remember how quiet it was. My first experience with any type of silencer. I am not sure the legalities of it, but it was cool.

 

[MattCFII]

Suppressor parts have been regulated just like a complete suppressor since the passage of the Gun Owners Protection Act in 1986. It would not be very smart IMHO to possess an "adapter" that fits a barrel and a soda bottle.

But as VUPD pointed out in this case it could be that the "suppressor" is the adapter and the bottle is the replaceable part similar to older suppressors that require the wipe to be changed out which IIRC is ok under 1986 act. The problem would be if BATFE decided that the pop bottles weren't replaceable parts anymore, unless they have already ruled that way and we haven't heard about it.

 

[rkba_net]

But as VUPD pointed out in this case it could be that the "suppressor" is the adapter and the bottle is the replaceable part similar to older suppressors that require the wipe to be changed out which IIRC is ok under 1986 act. The problem would be if BATFE decided that the pop bottles weren't replaceable parts anymore, unless they have already ruled that way and we haven't heard about it.

CORRECTED

REPLACEABLE wipes... (each one BY ITSELF) are NOT considered to be a suppressor... every other piece of a suppressor is LEGALLY a suppressor under Federal Law... this this also apples to the endcap or adapter to fit a barrel... you cannot buy these AFTERMARKET without complying with the NFA... they however can be sold with a new suppressor.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226

AUG 23 1999

901040:GS
5320/99-0115

Dear Mr. Bardwell:

This is in response to your letter of June 28, 1999, regarding the
repair of a silencer by an individual owner. You ask "whether it
is lawful for the owner of a lawfully possessed silencer ... to
repair that silencer himself, by replacing unserialized internal
components with new components of his own making." You cited the
replacement of a worn out plastic "wipe" or damaged baffle as an
example.

As you are aware, the terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm
muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing
the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of
parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling
or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part
intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. Thus,
certain internal components, intended only for use in a silencer,
are silencers as defined.

If an individual made one of these parts, even for use as a
replacement part, the individual would be making a silencer. Under
the provisions of the National Firearms Act, any person must apply
for and receive permission to make a silencer and pay the making
tax for each silencer made. This would require the individual
owner to file an ATF Form 1 application for each silencer part to
be made with the payment of $200.00 for each application prior to
making any replacement part.

In regard to the two parts in your cited example, we consider a
baffle to be a silencer, but a wipe, which is usually nothing more
than a rubber or plastic disc with a hole in it, is generally not
considered to be a silencer. Thus an individual owner could
replace a wipe.

- 2 -

Mr. Bardwell

For the replacement of a part or parts that meet the definition of
a silencer, the individual owner would need to arrange for the
transfer of the silencer to a Federal firearms licensee who is
qualified to manufacture silencers.

If you have questions about the classification of other silencer
components, please provide us with a description of them or should
any additional information be needed, please contact Gary Schiable
at (202) 927-8330.


Sincerely yours,

[signed]
Kent M. Cousins
Chief, National Firearms Act Branch


ALSO SEE...

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/041708silencer-faqs.pdf

 

[VUPDblue]

I will whole heartedly disagree with your arguement. The reason you don't see suppressors that use wipes any more is because that technology is out-dated and inefficient. ATF has stated that replaceable wipes are ok. I'll find the info when I get a few extra minutes.

 

[Lawguns]

I tried this with the POP bottles when we were stationed in Germany but all we got was glass everywhere.

But really replacing wipes or spun wool is fine. I have the letter from the ATF somewhere but it looks like VU is on it so I wont dig through the piles of paperwork to find it. Wiped suppressors sound better then most wipeless I think but only for a few shots that is the problem with them. If you are taking one shot and don't want to be heard that is what I would use if you are putting it on a subgun then the wipeless is they way to go.
I have seen some of those adapters as well but I can't remember where. They were not registered but I guess you could form 1 it to make it legal.