Any Anti- to Pro-Gun Converts Here?

[ElsiePeaRN]

A slow, long and painful process of learning to think with logic and reason. Learning to speak after pausing and thinking instead of quick, prompt snap judgments that stemmed from emotion only...
The conversation is a long one but it boils down to me misunderstanding the difference between moral choices and forced morality and how forced morality is not virtuous nor good....

I said essentially this same thing to an anti-gun acquaintance recently. I suggested that if she chose to follow this path she would certainly find her deeply held convictions about some things changing. She responded by saying "well that was very condescending" I wasn't sure how to respond to that without actually being condescending.

I was hooked ever since and have become more and more Libertarian the older I get. The Constitution is AWESOME.

 

[Pami]

Reach out to Pami too. I seem to remember a story she told about her sitting on the bed and crying at the sight of the .22LR pistol that was first introduced into her house.

I'm impressed at your memory.

A little over three years ago, I had an irrational fear of guns. I was convinced they would spontaneously explode (ok, that might be a bit of a hyperbole), and even more convinced that guns and children do NOT belong together, especially not in the same house. That last part probably came about because my best friend in high school got into her father's liquor cabinet one night, got herself nice and toasty, and wondered what it would feel like to shoot herself in the leg. (Not kidding. She spent several months in rehab for that.)

So, this relatively liberal Democrat-leaning Independent married this conservative, Republican-raised man. Neither one of us really grew up around guns, but Lars had an interest in them. He would mention them every now and then, but I was adamant that we were going to have kids, and I was not going to have guns in a house with kids. NOT EVER.

Somewhere along the way, he acquired a .22 S&W from a friend. He got it so he could go target shooting with his ham radio buddies after their weekly lunches. I think the only reason I'd allowed him to have it in the house was because by then I'd given up on ever having kids (by then I definitely knew it wasn't going to be without adopting, anyway).

He wanted me to know how to use it "just in case" someone ever broke into the house and I needed to protect myself. I told him I didn't even want to know where it was. Once in a while he would take it out and try to show me how it worked, but like paddling_man said, I would literally break down into tears - serious hysteria sometimes - if he even had it in pieces on the bed. I wasn't kidding when I said "irrational fear."

He tried all the tactics I advocate in our Women & Firearms forum. He was patient. He was gentle. He mentioned news stories where guns were used in self-defense. He mentioned news stories where it would have been great if the "good guy" had had a gun. But, violent crime was on a vocal rise with the media in Indy, and I just kept digging my heels in. (No need to have someone break into our house and steal our guns!)

AND THEN...
I accidentally uncovered a huge check fraud scheme at work. (Not internal, thankfully). But, I had given this guy my business card at least twice. I don't exactly have a common name, so it wouldn't have been difficult to find my address. It was right around the same time as that family of 7 who were executed in Indy a few years ago, and the media seemed to be jumping at every violent crime story they could. How was I to know this guy wasn't just doing his initiation into some bigger crime? I don't think I was worried so much about him coming to kill me, but I was worried about him (or his friends) breaking into the house, or finding me at work again. It unnerved me. A Lot.

So I asked Lars to show me how his gun worked. And I wanted him to take me to shoot it and really teach me. Except I didn't want him to teach me because he was relatively new at it, too. I wanted someone who was experienced with firearms to teach me. So, he asked one of his ham radio guys if he would take me to Pops with him sometime. I didn't know at the time, but he'd also managed to stumble across an infant INGO and started asking questions about getting training and where to practice and such.

I still remember the first shots I fired. I was shaking so bad, I could barely hold the pistol. I remember being stunned I didn't drop the gun. (I think Lars and our friend Mike were surprised, too). I remember crying through the next 30 minutes while Mike helped me understand what happened and showed me how to improve my grip and stance.

And then Lars posted my first target up here, showing off how awesome his wife is. So I had to create an account and thank the guys for their kind words of encouragement. They still haven't got me to shut up yet.

Anyway, I don't ever do anything half way. I decided that if I was going to practice shooting regularly, I wanted my own gun. And if I was going to eventually own a "big gun" (read: not a .22), I wanted a .22 as close to its big brother as you could get. Enter my first very own firearm, within a week or two of me shooting for the first time: a Sig Mosquito. Finicky little bastage. A month or two later, I acquired a P226. Then I met Shay, who taught me a LOT about mindset. A LOT. And he also taught me that the P226 was not the right tool for me. So the P226 found a new home, and I became the proud owner of a new-fangled SIG called the P250.

In addition to practically living at Pop's and Atterbury, I became a training junkie. We tried to get active in gaming, but I found I liked shooting USPSA and IDPA with my Canon a lot more than I liked shooting my P250 at the matches. (At a USPSA match at Riley, more than a few people thought I was going to throw my gun at that last steel target. Got it with my last shot.)

We haven't been out as much since the arrival of our daughter. But since that first year (only three years ago!), we've bought and traded a few pistols, an AR or three, an AK, and a couple of other rifles. We have an awesome Johnson safe that we love. I can almost quote the Indiana Code on firearms. I know the guns aren't going to explode spontaneously. (I know.. I've seen that webcam video of the Glock sitting in that guy's closet all day). Oh, and I'm a moderator on the largest pro-firearm forum in Indiana. Three years ago, who'd have thought that would have happened?

PS. Moving this to General Firearms, since it's not really a 2A politics thread.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

A slow, long and painful process of learning to think with logic and reason. Learning to speak after pausing and thinking instead of quick, prompt snap judgments that stemmed from emotion only.

I didn't grow up around guns in my immediate family. My uncles had them. My cousins had them. I had a bbgun but that is not in the same category.

The conversation is a long one but it boils down to me misunderstanding the difference between moral choices and forced morality and how forced morality is not virtuous nor good.

Fast forward to me being in college and a buddy of mine shared with me Michael Moore's "documentary" about firearms. I watched it, called it on its bull level and decided to skip church one sunday and shoot some handguns to see what the hoopla was about. I was hooked ever since and have become more and more Libertarian the older I get. The Constitution is AWESOME.

When taken as prescribed!

 

[Pyroponce]

Every single 'gun virgin' I've taken to the range has taken up an immediate love for firearms as soon as they were educated about them and introduced properly to them. In fact...I think 80% of them own at least one gun now.

My point is that being anti-gun typically comes from fear or lack of understanding, just like most other forms of intolerance stem from ignorance.

^^^ This.

This past December I had the opportunity to the range for the first time. I had always assumed that guns were dangerous and ownership ought to be heavily regulated. Little did I know that shooting can be quite enjoyable purely as a recreational activity, not to mention that many people (rightly so!) feel there's a legitimate need to arm one's self for defensive purposes. My friend did an excellent job explaining the basic rules of firearms safety and, after putting many rounds through her 22 and Glock 19, I was hooked!

My insatiable appetite for new info on stuff I'm unfamiliar with led me all across the web for information to educate myself on the history of firearms, firearms safety, both side of gun control, staying legal, and what I'm interested in buying for myself (yes, I know, I really ought to have bought a handgun by now, but I'm a poor college student and my first one may be my only one for awhile).

I would definitely say I am pro-gun ownership in a way that, if you would have told me four months ago that this would be the case, I would have laughed at you. I can understand that many people are afraid of guns and what they can do, but a little more education for many of these would go a long way to advancing our common cause.

 

[HDSilvrStreak]

Great story Pami. Thanks for taking the time to share it again. I'll also say that a big part of any "conversion" is education and awareness. I'm not talking about just guns here, but any issue.

Also, before my conversion to guns, another misconception I had was that hollow point ammunition was exceptionally rare and probably illegal. Little did I know it was available at Wal-Mart and Meijer. Not only that, but I've now reloaded my own hollow points in .45 using two different recipes. Thanks to Andrew at Profire Arms & Supply for the reload lessons!

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

I still remember the first shots I fired. I was shaking so bad, I could barely hold the pistol. I remember being stunned I didn't drop the gun. (I think Lars and our friend Mike were surprised, too). I remember crying through the next 30 minutes while Mike helped me understand what happened and showed me how to improve my grip and stance.

....PS. Moving this to General Firearms, since it's not really a 2A politics thread.

Thanks for sharing your story Pami! Wow! You are one determined lady. I'm not sure I have the fortitude to fight my way through that kind of fear.

It's interesting to see what motivates people to change their thinking on guns. In my case, although I'd like to say it was a transition to rational thinking, it was more anger and guilt I suppose; in others, simple curiosity or wanting to share an interest with a SO; and it appears for you, a tangible fear of something other than guns.

I usually avoid the topic of guns with people I know to be anti- as their reasons are often so deeply emotional that I know we'd get nowhere. I was curious whether this thread might give me some ideas on how to approach the topic. It seems that people will only change their mind when they are first willing to let go of strongly held opinions. I think most people would not push themselves the way you did though!

Thanks again -- and I did wonder if I was posting in the right forum, thanks for fixing that.

 

[schafe]

My wife and I always believed in and supported the Constitution and the 2A. As we grew older, we realized that time was awaistin' to demonstrate our support for the 2nd Amendment (use it or lose it!). So we both got our Indiana LTCH, but mostly as a political statement, with no immediate intentions of owning or carrying.
But shortly thereafter I realized that we both were getting older, and I didn't really have the strength or ability to defend myself, as I once thought I did.
So with the help of INGO and some friends, we both soon became armed and trained, and NRA members, and try to make regular range trips........Bonus! (I really didn't expect it to be that much fun.)
Now I don't understand how we let ourselves be without this very important tool of self defense.

 

[dross]

Great thread. Love the personal stories. Nothing I admire more than people who can reverse a previouly held incorrect position. The vast majority of folks hold on to their beliefs like precious jewells, regardless of their validity.

If I was ever anti-gun, I don't remember. I got my first Daisy Red Rider when I was five. Got a sparrow with it right away. Graduated to a pump pellet gun when I was seven. I literally can't remember when I didn't know how to aim a rifle. I remember arguing with grade school teachers about gun control when I was in elementary school. (For those of you who post in Politics, yes, I've been argumentative THAT long.

Anyway, really admire you guys. And as everyone knows, girls with guns are wicked hot.

 

[Fletch]

Anti-gun, anti-hunting. Bullied all through school, and saw nothing good about the bullies (who were also hunters) having guns as well as fists. Became an adult, and bullies became criminals.

Fast forward several years. I'm 23, and a coworker takes me out to shoot his new Glock. It suddenly dawns on me that I don't ever have to be afraid of bullies or criminals again. Bought my first gun soon after.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

I got my first Daisy Red Rider when I was five. Got a sparrow with it right away. Graduated to a pump pellet gun when I was seven...

I actually did learn to shoot a rifle when I was 12. My older brothers had grown up and gone off to miltary service and Dad sorely wanted someone to hunt with. I liked shooting at the targets. Our first actual hunting trip, a bunch of adorable fuzzy little rabbits were just sitting there in a meadow eating grass, being cute, and minding their own business. I had the biggest one in my sights. My Dad kept motioning and whispering to me to pull the trigger. Tears were pouring down my face. I made noise to scatter the rabbits, unloaded my rifle and started walking back to where we parked. I never saw the rifle again after that day

... And as everyone knows, girls with guns are wicked hot.

LMAO.. I'm afraid it would take more than a gun in my hand to confer "hotness." We all have our gifts, and hotness is not one of mine

 

[gunowner930]

I didn't grow up around guns. The first gun I fired was a M16A2 in boot camp. I was never "anti-gun," but my position on guns was not near as absolute as it is today. For example out of ignorance, I didn't push for but didn't oppose crap like registration, banning private sales, mandatory training. I just felt that you could still get guns despite all of that.

 

[schafe]

I remember crying through the next 30 minutes while Mike helped me understand what happened and showed me how to improve my grip and stance.

Tears were pouring down my face. I made noise to scatter the rabbits, unloaded my rifle and started walking back to where we parked.

Yeah, for my wife there were tears two times:
1) when she realized that we needed to start down the armed path,and
2) when in training during some close up and personal drills, during a defensive pistol class, she had an ephipany about what it might be like to be forced to shoot someone up close in self defense.
That one took her a long time to overcome, and for a few weeks, she was seriously questioning what she was doing. She called it a "journey she needed to take". She came out the other side much better for it, and I applaud her for taking that journey.

 

[Hooker]

My father raised me with the understanding that he did not like guns. After being in VietNam for 2 years, he never wanted to see one again. My brother and I were allowed to play with toy guns, but the rule was you could not point them at anyone, and even then we could tell he didn't like it. My entire life, I never thought of owning one and would have been a bit nervous if I had seen someone carrying in a grocery store or the mall.

Fast forward to last summer. I had to be in Atlanta for business and decided to look up a long time friend who is an instructor at the Ranger school at Fort Benning. He said, "Come down a day early. We'll go out on the range and I'll let you blow some sh** up."

I had the time of my life there. I was able to fire all kinds of machine guns, sniper rifles, the 50 cal, and I even got to blow up a tank from inside a Bradley from a half mile away. I will never forget that weekend.

That experience completely changed my mind about guns. I always wanted to go into the military but was rejected because of childhood health issues, but this new hobby of mine gives me the opportunity to learn to shoot and train anyway.

I bought my first handgun a few weeks ago and have been to the range quite a bit since. I also have to say, to be honest, that I have never felt as safe in my own home or when I am out with friends than I am when I am carrying. I don't ever want to go anywhere without it now.

So I am definitely a convert and am trying to warm my girlfriend up to the idea of getting her one now.

I am also really thankful for this forum where I am learning every day.

I love you guys

 

[Indydrew]

My story is similar to others...mom was a nurse in the ER and did her practicals in an East St. Louis ER after college. She had seen plenty of people that had "more holes in them than normal" of all ages.

Dad was "automatic rifle fodder" somewhere in the Philippines and narrowly avoided coming home in a box more than once. The only war souvenir he ever showed me is the canteen that was sitting next to him, it is full of large caliber holes. He teared up and I only saw it once when I was a kid.

Guns were never spoken of, except that they were bad, period. Toy guns were tolerated but would "disappear" after a day or two. I didn't shoot my first gun of any sort (BB or otherwise) until my early 30's.

Surprisingly, I was really good at it out of the gates. I started with a Ruger Mark II .22 and just fell in love with the inherent accuracy, the quest to make it "more" accurate led into some kitchen table gunsmithing.

From there, it moved into 1911's, shotguns, etc and a firm belief in the right to bear arms. The end to being a "sheeople" soon followed.

Now, I firmly believe that EVERYONE has the God given right to defend themselves and their family from harm. No politician, bureaucrat or human in general has the right to tell you otherwise. Period.

That is what I am teaching my 9 year old daughter, who has already been to the range with me several times with the very same .22 I started with.

Fostering a "fear" of guns in her can't possibly be relied upon to keep her safe. She needs to know what guns are about and learn to respect them and know how to be safe around them at all times.

My $.02,

-Drew

 

[Fletch]

Fostering a "fear" of guns in her can't possibly be relied upon to keep her safe. She needs to know what guns are about and learn to respect them and know how to be safe around them at all times.

Every time I have ever been verbally attacked for advocating that kids be taught about guns and gun safety, I have always responded to the effect that I've never heard of ignorance helping anyone with anything, and asked why my accuser is in favor of it.

 

[jason conley]

I have changed a few myself. My favorite is to tell them when things don't matter anymore and the world has gone to hell, I am coming to their house and taking everything they have, and there is nothing they can do about it. This has had an effect on at least two people I have known. I wouldn't do it to them but I think they understood.

 

[jason conley]

My other argument is when seconds count the police will be there in a few minutes. Bottom line is who is responsible for your safety and your family? YOU!

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

I have changed a few myself. My favorite is to tell them when things don't matter anymore and the world has gone to hell, I am coming to their house and taking everything they have, and there is nothing they can do about it. This has had an effect on at least two people I have known. I wouldn't do it to them but I think they understood.

By "changing a few" do you mean that this argument or the one in your next post actually changed someone's mind about guns? If so, I'd be interested to hear that story. I have heard both arguments used (not by me) in a debate with an anti-gun person and neither had any effect whatsoever except for the anti-gun person to roll their eyes and, in the case of the above argument, make them hate gunowners even more. If your experience with this argument was different, I'd love to hear about it.

Edited to add-- I just don't think we, as gunowners can make ANY argument that will change someone's mind unless they have their own epiphany that starts them in that direction themselves.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

That is what I am teaching my 9 year old daughter, who has already been to the range with me several times with the very same .22 I started with.

I love this!

 

[Pami]

Yeah, for my wife there were tears two times:
1) when she realized that we needed to start down the armed path,and
2) when in training during some close up and personal drills, during a defensive pistol class, she had an ephipany about what it might be like to be forced to shoot someone up close in self defense.
That one took her a long time to overcome, and for a few weeks, she was seriously questioning what she was doing. She called it a "journey she needed to take". She came out the other side much better for it, and I applaud her for taking that journey.

I had a similar epiphany during an Intro to Force on Force class I took. Shooting at real people and at the bad guy didn't bother me (too much). A) It was a training and the worst someone was going to get was a bruise, and B) if someone is shooting at me or hurting me, it's my responsibility to defend myself by whatever means necessary, so I had a pretty logical approach to the whole idea that I might actually hurt someone else if they were hurting me. (Not an ideal situation by any means, and not one I ever want to find myself in, but one I could learn to live with *if I had to*.)

What I hadn't bargained on was making a bad decision and shooting an innocent bystander during the training. (I thought she was rushing at me as part of a team of bad guys; she was rushing to get behind the person who was saving the store from the bad guy). THAT one I had a hard time rationalizing. I didn't say a word for three days. Lars wasn't entirely sure I was going to recover from it. Side note - one of the take-aways from that training was that if there is shooting going on, don't rush at anyone doing the shooting.

I just don't think we, as gunowners can make ANY argument that will change someone's mind unless they have their own epiphany that starts them in that direction themselves.

After reading lots and lots of stories (here and elsewhere) like this thread has sparked, I've come to this conclusion, too, but you'll never change anyone's mind if you don't try. Even if you change one mind/one life, that's one more than we had before.

Fostering a "fear" of guns in her can't possibly be relied upon to keep her safe. She needs to know what guns are about and learn to respect them and know how to be safe around them at all times.

From my "guns and kids should never be in the same house, much less room" irrational fear of firearms, this is exactly where I am now on the issue.