Al-Qaeda forces capture Fallujah, Iraq... declare it an Islamic state

[Jludo]

FIFY

Its not Godwin's theory, its Godwin's law hah

 

[zippy23]

Well my 14 months just got flushed down the toilet. 7 months in Fallujah in 06 and 7 in Ramadi in 07. If only people could of seen the good that was done while we were there things would of been different but instead we have our generations Vietnam.

The media will never show the greatness of our military. They will never show the people of those countries crying for joy when we arrive. They will never show the good things, because that doesnt sell to idiotic masses of this country and it defeats their ideology. Leaving iraq with nothing has proven to be the dumbest thing we could have done over there, obama has just wasted the lives of our service men and women, years of hard work, countless dollars, and destroyed once again our credibility. How anyone is gov't or power allows this man to hold office is beyond me. The fact he remains shows how far down the toilet this country is, and i believe we are way past the point of getting it back.

 

[ghuns]

One question is this. Does the average goat farmer in Iraq have a better or worse quality of life for us invading? He isn't concerned with what Saddam did or didn't do or if we were justified in invading. If his life is worse, he'll blame America. Did we create more terrorists than we eliminated?

How come when a bomb gets dropped by us, and kills the child of an Iraqi or Afghani farmer, we assume that he becomes a terrorist and hates the USA? Are they just common, simple minded people of the earth, you know, morons?

My quality of life and my freedom are in worse shape since 9/11 and our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, but I'm not pissed at the goat farmer in Iraq.

 

[printcraft]

How come when a bomb gets dropped by us, and kills the child of an Iraqi or Afghani farmer, we assume that he becomes a terrorist and hates the USA? Are they just common, simple minded people of the earth, you know, morons?

My quality of life and my freedom are in worse shape since 9/11 and our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, but I'm not pissed at the goat farmer in Iraq.

See, what you are missing is that it was our fault 9/11 happened in the first place.............. so yeah, around in circles we go.
If we just blame America first and last we can get this sucker wrapped up.

 

[Dead Duck]

My quality of life and my freedom are in worse shape since 9/11 and our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, but I'm not pissed at the goat farmer in Iraq.

Well you should be - Have you ever tried Goat Milk?

 

[ghuns]

I have owned goats. I am sympathetic to anyone who attempts to make a living off of them.

 

[JimboCX]

We did not need to invade Iraq. There was no need. They weren't asking to be liberated or George H would have finished the job during the Gulf War. We didn't need to invade because we knew that we could control Saddam. He was just running his mouth. Their military was weak. The common people didn't know any better. They have lived generations under some kind of dictatorship. We (Americans) always think our way is better. I spoke with my Filipino family members who still live in the Philippines, they said life was better under Marcos. When the common people's lives are interrupted, they just want to get back to what they are comfortable with. We can argue all we want but Iraq wasn't necessary. I think Afghanistan was necessary but we didn't look back at the failures of Russia. We have not done any better than Russia did. When you invade a country, you have to have a real plan other than going in and destroying a country. I agree with some of the others in that we created more enemies than we defeated. Our way is not always the best. Those countries are not diverse like the US. They are tribal and think tribally. We cannot win the war because those groups will wait us out.

 

[rambone]

No Iraqi harmed any American freedoms.

 

[Kutnupe14]

We did not need to invade Iraq. There was no need. They weren't asking to be liberated or George H would have finished the job during the Gulf War. We didn't need to invade because we knew that we could control Saddam. He was just running his mouth. Their military was weak. The common people didn't know any better. They have lived generations under some kind of dictatorship. We (Americans) always think our way is better. I spoke with my Filipino family members who still live in the Philippines, they said life was better under Marcos. When the common people's lives are interrupted, they just want to get back to what they are comfortable with. We can argue all we want but Iraq wasn't necessary. I think Afghanistan was necessary but we didn't look back at the failures of Russia. We have not done any better than Russia did. When you invade a country, you have to have a real plan other than going in and destroying a country. I agree with some of the others in that we created more enemies than we defeated. Our way is not always the best. Those countries are not diverse like the US. They are tribal and think tribally. We cannot win the war because those groups will wait us out.

That's my only issue with your post. The Iraqi military was not weak; it was just that our military is THAT potent.

 

[Shadow8088]

That's my only issue with your post. The Iraqi military was not weak; it was just that our military is THAT potent.

Tell that to my cousin who had thousands of soldiers literally walk out of the desert and surrender to his tank... repeatedly...

They were undergeared, had practically no food or water, and stood no chance against anyone that could fire a weapon back at them... it was safer for them to simply surrender and get fed by us...

I do agree with the potency of our military, that was never in question..

 

[lucky4034]

I guess some people around here are okay with foreign powers assassinating our elected leaders or former elected leaders. Or at least ignoring them when they try.

Does that about sum it up?

What leaders? Our people in charge are sinking the ship....

 

[lucky4034]

See, what you are missing is that it was our fault 9/11 happened in the first place.............. so yeah, around in circles we go.
If we just blame America first and last we can get this sucker wrapped up.

Was it Iraq's fault? Your former king even admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11....

 

[printcraft]

Was it Iraq's fault? Your former king even admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11....

LOL

See, if we just blame America first and last we don't need to go any further with this line of questioning. Problem is solved. Americas fault. Period. End of Story.

 

[Manatee]

How about we just GTF out of those countries and let them go back to goat herding? I don't want to play policeman of a culture so different from ours. If Saddham invaded Ohio, we'd be ready to defend it and we wouldn't care for Iraqi's all that much.

Heck , I might even volunteer Printcraft as a suicide bomber.

Let's GTF out of there. We have almost 700 military bases around the world. I can't see that we need them to fight the next war….WWII maybe…and generals are always fighting yesterday's war.

GTF out of Afghanistan.

 

[printcraft]

..........Heck , I might even volunteer Printcraft as a suicide bomber.........

All the girls say I'm the bomb.

 

[Kart29]

Was the mistake in responding to violations of the unconditional surrender (because if we want to deal with all the facts on the table, that was also part of the rationale for taking action; and unlike the WMD claims, there was zero ambiguity about those violations)

Yes. That was the mistake. I've noticed that Republicans (and I'm not accusing you of being a Republican - just that you are echoing their argument) like to gripe and complain about the United Nations, but then use the upholding of UN resolutions as a good reason to invade Iraq. To heck with Iraq's violations of UN resolutions. Let somebody else deal with it. It's not my problem.

I think we had justification for invading Iraq based on its support of terrorism and the general concept of our "re-arranging the face of the middle east". There is ample cause for a "get your mind right" campaign against these muslim emirates and dicatotorships in my opinion. But it was naive to think that anything of lasting consequence could be accomplished without making a commitment to have a mult-generational military campaign and subsequent nation building in multiple Middle Eastern nations including Saudi Arabia. And let's face it, the US just doesn't have the resources to accomplish that nor the national will to sacrifice those resources if we had them.

 

[Kart29]

Was the mistake in responding to violations of the unconditional surrender (because if we want to deal with all the facts on the table, that was also part of the rationale for taking action; and unlike the WMD claims, there was zero ambiguity about those violations)

Yes. That was the mistake. I've noticed that Republicans (and I'm not accusing you of being a Republican - just that you are echoing their argument) like to gripe and complain about the United Nations, but then use the upholding of UN resolutions as a good reason to invade Iraq. To heck with Iraq's violations of UN resolutions. Let somebody else deal with it. It's not my problem.

I think we had justification for invading Iraq based on its support of terrorism and the general concept of our "re-arranging the face of the middle east". There is ample cause for a "get your mind right" campaign against these muslim emirates and dicatotorships in my opinion. But it was naive to think that anything of lasting consequence could be accomplished without making a commitment to have a mult-generational military campaign and subsequent nation building in multiple Middle Eastern nations including Saudi Arabia. And let's face it, the US just doesn't have the resources to accomplish that nor the national will to sacrifice those resources if we had them.

 

[Manatee]

You are correct. I vote we dispense with our support of Israel and begin to support Norway. About the same number of people. Many more blondes. Even Steve van Zandt likes it.

It would be cheaper.

They have a ski jump at Lillehammer.

 

[ViperJock]

So are you saying if we leave those places and mind our own business Al Quaeda and friends will leave us alone? Yeah. Didn't think so. Better to fight them there.

There will be war regardless. You guys are missing the problem. IF our foreign policy HAD been different, we might not have the problems we do now. The reality is that if you are right and our current bombs are making the terrorists of the future, then we know the fight isn't over. Might as well fight it over there. If the other camp is correct and they hate us because we aren't beholden to their religious point of view, the fighting will continue. Might as well fight it over there.

Its easy to say "get us out, leave em alone" but then what? I'm assuming your exit strategy ends in burying your head in the sand you can pretend you don't know who is engaging you in unwanted sexual relations from behind.

 

[Manatee]

I'm saying: We can drill for oil through glass.