Airsoft....

[Nodnarb]

I bought my son a couple airsoft guns to get him acquainted with guns and gun safety. They work well for that purpose but they are wildly inaccurate beyond 10 yards. Fun to target shoot with him though. They are stored in a locked case and treated like real firearms. He has a blast with them.

 

[Sgtusmc]

There are very easy ways to modify airsoft M4's to behave like an AR-15 by removing/prohibiting select fire. There are several available on the market now which function EXACTLY like real AR-15's and M4's, they're called Professional Training Weapons and are made by Systema, Celsius, and a new company G&D. These PTW's have a functioning bolt catch and when the last round is fired from a magazine the bolt locks back so it must be released before you can fire the next shot after a reload. All of the PTW's are nearly identical internally to real steel AR-15's as they have a split design where the cylinder is in the upper acting as the bolt and the gears in the lower where the trigger mech would be. Other than recoil, they're about as realistic as it gets because they're programmed with trigger response accurate to real AR's and rate of fire as well.

Prepare to pay roughly $1300 for said PTW firing at ~330 FPS. Most events limit you to ~350 FPS when you chrono. Alot of playing fields have a range of engagement for long guns out to 50 ft or so. Gotta use an airsoft pistol or rubber knife to engage closer or in structures.

 

[Dragon]

Prepare to pay roughly $1300 for said PTW firing at ~330 FPS. Most events limit you to ~350 FPS when you chrono. Alot of playing fields have a range of engagement for long guns out to 50 ft or so. Gotta use an airsoft pistol or rubber knife to engage closer or in structures.

Your information is a bit off. PTW's can be had as low as $550 and at a max of $2,300. Most events chrono at 400fps with .20g bb's and minimum engagement distances vary depending on the FPS said gun chronos. You can actually chrono lower or higher (to an extent) at most events. For example 400fps allows you to shoot full auto with an MED (Minimum Engagement Distance) further than 25ft. Less than 25ft with 400fps would require a sidearm. Now let's say your gun is setup for the designated marksman position, it might be allowed to go as high as 475fps with a 75ft MED, or maybe 100ft. If you're a sniper/scout then you might be able to go as high as 600-650fps with a 100ft MED and anything inside of that MED would require a sidearm or secondary weapon. Now for most CQB facilities and games, you are required to be at/below 350fps with .20g bb's and the MED is 0 but semi-auto only. Meaning you can shoot point blank.

Also, some events that run 400fps in fields, don't require an MED at all but require you to switch to semi-auto for close engagements.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Your information is a bit off. PTW's can be had as low as $550 and at a max of $2,300. Most events chrono at 400fps with .20g bb's and minimum engagement distances vary depending on the FPS said gun chronos. You can actually chrono lower or higher (to an extent) at most events. For example 400fps allows you to shoot full auto with an MED (Minimum Engagement Distance) further than 25ft. Less than 25ft with 400fps would require a sidearm. Now let's say your gun is setup for the designated marksman position, it might be allowed to go as high as 475fps with a 75ft MED, or maybe 100ft. If you're a sniper/scout then you might be able to go as high as 600-650fps with a 100ft MED and anything inside of that MED would require a sidearm or secondary weapon. Now for most CQB facilities and games, you are required to be at/below 350fps with .20g bb's and the MED is 0 but semi-auto only. Meaning you can shoot point blank.

Also, some events that run 400fps in fields, don't require an MED at all but require you to switch to semi-auto for close engagements.

I said roughly, meaning the general average. Also ~ means roughly. So I didnt dot my i's. I'm sure the enthusiasts reading this thread appreciated your thoroughness. All in all, a lot of people guestimating ranges prior to taking a shot. I know its a guideline so people arent shooting people in the face up close but it teaches hesitation in a real situation. All for fun though. Grain of salt, grain of salt.

 

[advan031]

Funny thing was I bought an Airsoft M4 and one night realized how much money I've spent on it...bought a real gun the next day! Airsoft guns can be fun though.

 

[ckcollins2003]

It depends on how you're using the Airsoft replicas and what your goals are. Some people are having a lot of fun playing tag with them, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some use them as an economical choice for force on force training to learn and practice tactics with live adversaries that you can't do with real guns. The latter requires that the participants immerse themselves in the scenarios and drills for it to be of real use, though.

This.

While airsoft can be a good training tool, it's all about how you apply it.

When playing airsoft and paintball in competitions, you're trying to look fancy while taking out the opposing team. The few times I played I'd jump over some of the barriers, run out in the open alot, try and sneak right up to the person. In combat, you're simply trying to take them out to stay alive. No way would I try to sneak right up to the person if real bullets were involved.

 

[-Rogue-]

Airsoft is entirely more developed and complicated than the SGTUSMC seems to indicate. I encourage anyone who is really interested in it to take a look at the two major airsoft forums in Indiana. Like INGO, they are a wealth of information and have passionate people to help anyone with any questions.

Airsoft Indiana
Indiana Northern Airsoft Collective

SGT- As an avid airsofter who has been playing in this State for almost ten years, I do not recognize your forum name. Have you actually been to any larger events run by either of these forums?

The whining of the motor is louder than the poof of air exiting the barrel. And no, most airsoft guns just look like their real counterparts. Their motor being in the pistol grip, operating a gearbox assembly in the receiver portion that pulls back a piston in the upper portion. A BCG is non existant, usually just a facade with the charging handle doing nothing but popping open the dust cover.

The good SGT just glosses over the differences between the weapon systems. There are actually two very different types of airsoft guns.

AEGs or "Airsoft Electric Guns" are the weapon type you are describing. They use an electric motor and a series of gears to pull a piston back and fire a BB. Typically, these weapons are similar to "real-steel" only in magazine changes and the safety selector.

What was glossed-over was the weapons that fall under the "Gas Blow Backs" or GBBs category.

Gas Blow Back weapons are typically true weapons simulators. They use liquid gasses stored in the magazine with the BBs to power replicas. In many instances their weapons manipulation is EXACTLY the same as real firearms.

Here is a quick video of an ACR in GBB form. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kUFmTgPQtc

Note that the charging handle must be cocked, there is recoil and the bolt locks to the rear upon an empty magazine.

Similar replicas exist for Glocks/M4/M16s/Sigs/AK's and just about any other commonly used firearm in existence.

Regular electrics are different from the gas operated versions which provide a "blowback" feature to simulate movement of a bolt to provide a sense of recoil. They're a tad louder being that they use green gas.

This wholly glosses over true GBBs.

Again, true GBB airsoft weapons are made to exactly simulate real firearms. They use the said gasses to propel the action in exactly the same manner as real firearms. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae_9WqPDWk4"]Here [/ame]is a (bad) video of a Glock replica.

Recoil is similar to a .22LR. The one thing you are correct about is that volume is less since the propellant is not an explosive, but a gas changing from a liquid to a gas state.

Edit: airsoft rifles are not made to spec. Usually an upper from an airsoft will not fit onto a real lower due to the differences. Also they're mostly made of zinc metal....not good to handle any amount of the pressures of a real firearm. You're better off making a zip gun than trying to turn one of these into a firearm.

This is again, a half-truth. What do you define as "spec" since it can mean the metallurgy, the dimensions, the finish, etc?

Almost all airsoft replicas are made the same external dimensions as their real counterparts. Players can and do often use real accessories on their airsoft weapons.

I do too. I have a GBB ACR I use for training and playing and a real ACR for real shooting. The accessories are almost completely interchangeable except for the internal firing components.

There are also airsoft replicas made to the same abuse standards as real weapons. Granted, they cost a bit more, but they are availble. As an example, the upper receivers are both my ACR's are billet aluminum, with different millings so the airsoft version cannot be converted. Other GBBs are also milled from aircraft-grade aluminum.

Open up an airsoft rifle and they look nothing like their real counterparts. Its a rediculous notion to believe the anti gun community saying these could be used to be made into real rifles.

The below only applies to GBB weapons. The SGT is correct about AEGs, which are completely different internal construction than GBBs and CANNOT be converted in any way.

He is also correct in saying that it is a ridiculous notion to state that a real bullet can be fired from an airsoft barrel, but it is NOT ridiculous that they could be made into a "real" rifle, since the "gun" is defined by the receiver by the ATF.

About five years ago, there was a model of airsoft weapons that WERE made to full military "spec" . They spent so much time trying to perfect the realism, that the manufacturer got it right. A company called Inokattsu made a GBB M4 that mimic'd all the features and dimensions of a real firearm except the mounts between the upper and lower receiver. The ATF seized a shipment and banned subsequent importation when they realized that the lower receiver of the GBB M4 could be attached (with about a 1/2 hour of filing) to a real upper receiver and was able to fire the weapon fully-automatic (even the trigger group and auto-sears would right). Remember, the lower receiver was considered the "gun" by the ATF.

So yes, airsoft weapons in their entirely cannot be converted to real weapons, but parts of them COULD be.

Since then, the airsoft manufacturers have worked very closely with the ATF to ensure that nothing like this happens again. The airsoft community always wants to ensure that conversions are impossible and has taken the steps to ensure that they will remain that way. The manufacturers have changed their designs. Any company wishing to sell them has to send a copy to the ATF so they can "okay" them for import and that even the GBBs are not capable of being modified.

 

[Excalibur]

All the same, it was thanks to Airsoft that I started my interests in guns.

 

[-Rogue-]

Yes, those guys like Systema make their internals look like a real steel M4. I've seen one up close. They are hilariously expensive and in my opinion, defeats the purpose of having a cheap practicing tool over the real thing. If you have a thousand plus dollars to burn, get a real rifle. A lot of other Airsoft Companies like Toyko Marui are making their own electric power rifles with simulated recoil, where the bolt locks to the rear and you need to manipulate the bolt catch. But as I said, these things are hilariously expensive for the purpose.

GBB kits are available for a mere $200-$250 USD. Magazines are bit more expensive (about $50/piece... like real magazines these days) but are completely reusable.

At today's prices, you can get an airsoft GBB replica and magazines and shoot over 10,000 rounds through it before you even touch the price for 1,500 rounds of 223/556

Not a bad training tool at all since the weapons manipulation is exactly the same. Video showing a GBB M4 that can be acquired for about $250.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0COz4_KKo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0COz4_KKo[/ame]

Price per round (assuming you have everyting) to practice with a GBB airsoft replica is about is about $.03 compared to real rounds at about $.50/round

 

[Sgtusmc]

Look, I'm not here to play tit for tat nor do I plan to divulge what forums I have frequented. One mans opinion is not going to bring down your sport so why be so defensive about it? Its not like I said anything about your mom. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of having a good time. Theres a "half truth" to anyones opinion of something unless you write a scientific publication showing every breakdown of the thesis supporting ones opinion. I'm not writing a publication, I'm communicating in short form from my own experience. Experience is subjective, yours AND mine. Call it half truth all you want, the sport itself is a half truth to what its trying to represent. Thats the jist of it. But its not like Im standing on the street with some sign saying AIRSOFT SUCKS! Enjoy yourself, doesnt matter to me one bit.

 

[Sublime49er247]

Having all of the tactical gear seems a bit much for airsoft. On the other hand a tactical vest would great for holding extra magazines and ammo packs.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Only a Marine will laugh at this one for certain reasons.

Chill and enjoy dudes.

 

[Osobuco]

Airsoft is fun for when the friends are over. Allows for backyard skirmishes without worrying about paintballs damaging anything. Plus, they don't leave the bruising and are cheaper than paintball.

I never did get why people dress in full tactical gear during airsoft though? Seems really goofy to me.

It is fun in the back yard/woods for sure. My kids play and it is nowhere near as messy as paintball however they bruise like crazy! At least the guns my kids use. Full face shield is necessary as well as a heavy sweatshirt if you do not want to get stung bad. I agree with you full tactical gear is just for kids who wanna look cool

 

[Sgtusmc]

It is fun in the back yard/woods for sure. My kids play and it is nowhere near as messy as paintball however they bruise like crazy! At least the guns my kids use. Full face shield is necessary as well as a heavy sweatshirt if you do not want to get stung bad. I agree with you full tactical gear is just for kids who wanna look cool

I agree that dressing up for it is part of the immersion. I mean, who didnt play army in the woods without putting on some cammies. Whats kinda, IDK, a little much is seeing guys wearing plate carriers or putting fake suppresors on their guns (does nothing but add length).

Then again, there are those who go full on and try to emulate a certain period, branch of service, special unit or whatnot and there are thoses who are more utilitarian. Then again, if you ARE in a unit doing it for actual training, then you are gonna wear what you normally would.

 

[danielson]

Funny, you mention that, Ive see people, both with airsoft, not in person, and in paintball, in person, who re-enact actual units and such. One thing I thought was very cool, when I was at Oklahoma Dday, there was a group of Brits who re-enact a certain group of British WW2 soldiers, and they played as those soldiers, and had the same objectives as the men who did the real fighting decades ago. I know its fake, and its just grown men playing soldier, but I felt kinda like they were paying homage to them.

 

[digitalphoenix]

Yeah, but they've got a helicopter.... Skip to 3 minutes in.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIKUuTxhYmY[/ame]

 

[RobyG78]

Certainly Airsoft/paintball came from a real need by LE and Military enact realistic training without using blanks and miles gear to accomplish it. and that is were Sim munitions came in, still dangerous and you definitely know when you get hit. I have spent a considerable amount of money on tactical gear over the years and put a lot of stock in it, because my life depended on it. That being said I do not understand the parents and or the individuals willingness to spend that much so they or their children can play Army. I also don't understand some of the rules they use to govern it. Solely you are playing war so there are no rules besides you getting hit and acknowledging that you are then dead or wounded until you can recover from the injury if possible.

The hopes I have for Airsoft/paintball is that it funnels individuals into actual firearms that might have never gotten into them otherwise. Weather that be hunting, sporting/competition or just fun shooting.

Rob

 

[digitalphoenix]

Certainly Airsoft/paintball came from a real need by LE and Military enact realistic training without using blanks and miles gear to accomplish it. and that is were Sim munitions came in, still dangerous and you definitely know when you get hit. I have spent a considerable amount of money on tactical gear over the years and put a lot of stock in it, because my life depended on it. That being said I do not understand the parents and or the individuals willingness to spend that much so they or their children can play Army. I also don't understand some of the rules they use to govern it. Solely you are playing war so there are no rules besides you getting hit and acknowledging that you are then dead or wounded until you can recover from the injury if possible.

The hopes I have for Airsoft/paintball is that it funnels individuals into actual firearms that might have never gotten into them otherwise. Weather that be hunting, sporting/competition or just fun shooting.

Rob

Beats playing Call Of Duty by a longshot.

 

[advan031]

Yeah, but they've got a helicopter.... Skip to 3 minutes in.

I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous and lame. If they want to play soldiers that badly then might as well join the armed forces!

 

[Shwaisey]

I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous and lame. If they want to play soldiers that badly then might as well join the armed forces!

You do realize, most of the people attending the games such as the two videos posted of the larger events are ex-military/LEO/Dragonslayers?