Active shooter at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas...

[navarre1095]

The Bee Explains: The Gun Control Debate

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[HoughMade]

The NRA should be less willing to compromise. We always lose or give up something. I'm tired of giving up rights and getting shafted by the anti's.

What has the NRA compromised on in the last 20 years? I'm curious.

 

[Alpo]

This, gun community gets punished for the actions of 1 every time.

....he says as I take my shoes off and some TSA puke inspects my junk on my way to Gate 4.

 

[aaron580]

....he says as I take my shoes off and some TSA puke inspects my junk on my way to Gate 4.

Don't think of it as an inspection, think of it as a free poke and squeeze!

 

[T.Lex]

What has the NRA compromised on in the last 20 years? I'm curious.

If we go to 25, I think its easier to come up with an example.

 

[ScouT6a]

I'm shocked by the drift I'm seeing that amounts to "I don't have one" or "I don't like them" and so, I'm ok with doing yet another one-way "compromise" to appease the barking hounds demanding common sense solutions in a number of gun people.

This is another Lucy and Charlie Brown episode of Charlie trying to kick the football...if we seriously believe there'll be any good faith trading here is delusional.

^^^^THIS^^^^

 

[bobzilla]

Here's the Story Behind Moving Picture of Young Man Shielding Woman During Vegas Gunfire

so.... he was trying to cop a feel. I get it. "hey baby.... its the end of the world!"

add purple if you think I'm serious.

 

[HoughMade]

If we go to 25, I think its easier to come up with an example.

I know what I'm doing.

 

[bobzilla]

Don't think of it as an inspection, think of it as a free poke and squeeze!

it would be a lot better if they hired hot redheads and brunettes to do the squeeze and poking. I'd probably fly a lot more and "accidentally" leave things in my "pockets".

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Exactly right. ^^ Defending bump stocks is the wrong battle, imo.

I estimate I could dump a 100rd surefire in about 45-50 seconds with my Geissele SD-3G. So I can clear 150rpm or so in SA if necessary and if I'm willing to destroy an otherwise good barrel with sustained ammo wasting.

I'm not willing to give up binary triggers, however.

You don't have to. Just install a drop-in trigger group wrong (don't tighten the set screws properly). Or so I've heard...

 

[Kutnupe14]

Now the real question, do you think video games cause violence?

Well, that depends. I've seen a lot of violence concerning video games. Bill Walsh College football on the Genesis, triggered quite a few.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Not nearly as many as you. M4, M14, UMP45, MP5. While the M4 was not bad but it eats through mags is seconds. I had my 15yr old shooting an M4 and he did well with short 3-4rd bursts. But that was 7yrds or so. M14...useless in FA. UMP was downright nice in FA, same with MP5. Not hard to keep tight groups in FA. I just finished reading "The Operator" by SEAL Team 6 member Robert Oneill. He was in a battle with the Taliban for 6 hours. In that time, he only used a mag and a half of ammo...45 rounds. For rifle work, aimed fire will always be King, FA has a very limited usefulness, even on our SWAT Team. The high demand for FA is only because we can't have it (most of us cannot afford it). I don't really care if all law abiding gun owners have a FA, but the attraction is related to the scarcity.

Good post, and I agree with your experiences and view of aimed fire vs. FA.

Markmanship, firing only as fast as you can aim, is smart and effective. O'neill was in the **** and far from resupply (6 hours, yikes!), very smart to conserve ammo in that situation - make the most of each shot.

Attraction related to scarcity - yep, that's certainly a part of it. Prior to the Hughes Amendment to FOPA in 86, FAs were available and affordable, but uncommon and not all that sought after except for dedicated shooters and collectors. They were an even more niche and less publicized segment than they are now. I suspect that the internet has something to do with their increased popularity (education vs. myth), but the artificial scarcity plays a role too. Leadeye would be one of the most qualified INGOers to talk about this and I have heard him comment about it before. I have friends of similar age who were also into NFA stuff at the time and they all agree that the 70s/early 80s were pretty good times for dedicated shooters and collectors of MGs. The NFA community was smaller and more friendly back then (less about the business $$$), even up through the late 90s. Just in the time I've been around it (since the early 90s), things within the NFA community have changed a lot - some things for the better, some things not.

 

[Ruffnek]

Back to the topic, and alternative theories, anybody at least starting to consider an accomplice? In a recent presser with Lombardo he was asked about an accomplice and his answer was more of an "I don't know" than "we don't believe that to be the case." There's also a video going around Facebook about someone who recorded from a line of taxis and it sounded like multiple firing positions.

 

[Bigtanker]

Yeah. The Salma Hayek Syndrome.

Indy?

Bout' dang time.....

 

[AmmoManAaron]

The NRA should be less willing to compromise. We always lose or give up something. I'm tired of giving up rights and getting shafted by the anti's.

From a mechanical standpoint and the lines drawn by BATFE, they could have negotiated from a position of strength. They may be counting on the BATFE Tech Branch coming to the same conclusion as previously, but I'm concerned they are giving in a little too easily. A good proposal considering that something is almost certain to pass, would be to amnesty register any of the prohibited items as something similar to MGs (because factually and mechanically they are NOT), in exchange for national concealed carry reciprocity (sell it as allowing individuals to more easily defend themselves during any future nut-job mass shooting event).

ETA: I know most of this is wishful thinking. We are in for a real **** storm. You can bet they are going to try to cram other stuff into whichever bill starts getting traction.

 

[bobzilla]

Bout' dang time.....

finally a syndrome I could get behind. Or under. Or in front. Or wherever... not really all that picky

 

[Leadeye]

For a young guy, Aaron knows his stuff.

What triggered the growth in NFA sales back in the 70s was simple inflation, $200 wasn't what it was in 1934. One of the first sales we made was a 45 ACP Powder Springs MAC-10 bought by a customer who said simply that he had $400 to spend and he thought this would be more fun than a Colt Python. We sold the gun for $200 and he paid the tax. We paid $100 for the gun from a guy we knew in Wisconsin that had picked up a lot at the MAC auction. I don't know what he paid but I would bet new in the box it was less than $50. Everybody knew pretty much everybody else and what they did. Old Thompsons? See Roger Cox. Belt fed Brownings? See Doug Offinger. There were always two levels, the OEM stuff and the repro stuff that came from guns that weren't transferable. Good machinists simply stripped the parts and put them on a newly manufactured receiver, sometimes of variable quality, now it's a transferable gun. I got out of the business in the 90s and sold stuff to help fund my kids college never dreaming prices would be where they are today.

 

[Woobie]

Quick and accurate aimed fire is the most effective response in almost all circumstances and doesn't waste ammo (a precious resource if you are far from resupply). My opinion is that full auto has it's place in the following relatively uncommon circumstances:
1.) repelling human wave attacks (happened in Korea, Vietnam, and occasionally in A-stan)
2.) mag dumps into suicide car bombers. Stopping them on their approach as quickly as possible means everyone dumps everything into the vehicle as quickly as possible. You may or may not have the time and presence of mind to flip the switch, but if you are already at a checkpoint your selector setting (if applicable) may not be an issue.
3.) counter sniper fire - think of it as a quick response to fire from a building window...you saw the flash, but because of lighting you can't see to aim specifically at the person firing. Dump a burst into the window and surrounding walls, seek cover, reassess.
4.) breaking contact and relocating in a firefight/ambush when you can identify the source of enemy fire (i.e. - not just a panic response, which is pretty useless and a waste of ammo)

Experiences can and will differ. If you ever did any reading on lightfighter, you know how quickly tactics and scenarios can evolve.

This covers it pretty well. I would add picking up rates of fire when the SAW goes down (and they do, often). FWIW, I hate the burst feature. Generally it is an aimed round followed by two wasted rounds. The trade off for the increase in fire is an awful trigger. In SA, it has multiple pull weights from shot to shot. If it were ever up to me, I would much prefer a rifle capable only of SA and FA.

 

[jedi]

NPR reporting that the gunman had booked rooms in chicago during the time lalapalloza was going on this year! I only caught the headline news on this.

Holly cow this could have hit real close to home.

 

[jedi]

Here is the report.
Shooter May Have Considered Other Targets In Chicago And Las Vegas : The Two-Way : NPR

Chicago hotel confirms shooter had a room by the music fest this year.