A couple of questions for our LEO members.

[finity]

I'm an engineer, not an attorney, Jim!

That said, I would bet a locked case, in plain view, a LEO could request to see the contents and legally expect cooperation.. I might or might not insist on his bringing a supervisor out to complete this demand.

I believe that a locked case/box/safe attached to the frame of the vehicle may fall under a different view as being something that there is an implied privacy behind and a warrant would be necessary that stated specifically what they wanted to search for in the safe.

Again, non-attorney speculation and hearsay from me and doesn't directly address the question. I BELIEVE the rules are: plain sight and they get to examine. Out of sight, only with your permission or a warrant. A safe semi-permanently attached to the frame but in plain sight... my impression was a warrant was required without your permission.

If it was in plain sight then they wouldn't need to examine it. They could already see it. If it's inside a case then it's not in plain sight.

Example: they can see your glove box but they can't examine it (open it)without a warrant or PC. A gun case or any other kind of a case is no different. Something illegal in plain view only gives them PC to continue a search. A long gun case isn't illegal (or is the rifle/shotgun inside) so no PC = no search.

Like 1032JBT said I probably wouldn't stop you for 45 in a 35, unless it was during a blizzard or a school zone during school hours.

If I did stop you and saw what I knew to be rifle cases, I'd ask you what was in them, simply because I'm a gun nut and I'm always interested in what guns people own/carry. I'm not fishing for anything, I'm just making conversation. If you chose to be an a-hole and tell me its none of my business, I'll probably sign you up for whatever infraction I stopped you for. If you engage me in pleasant conversation about something that interests both of us, I'll more than likely let you go with a warning. Unless I have PC to open the cases I won't even ask, but you are more than welcome to show me if you have something really cool in them.

I can't speak for my coworkers. One thing to remember about police officers is that some of them aren't necessarily anti-2A, they just aren't as pro-2A as some of us.

The problem here is that we don't know it's you when we get pulled over. It could be that "one in a thousand" bad cops who is fishing for something to bust you for.

I can't remember the other poster on here I recently had a "conversation" with but it had to do with "persuading" the person he pulled over to allow him to search the vehicle when he had no PC to do it otherwise. IOW, he tricked them into giving up their rights - & then blamed them for being too stupid to realize he was doing it.

YOU may have good intentions but not every cop does. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that just because we don't want to take the chance of running afoul of "that cop" that we're being a-holes.

You know we firefighters have police powers in Indiana now right? I am going to start checking permits on every person I see with a sidearm.

I'm only a Fireman so I would prone you out and stomp on you with my bunker boots. Cause, you know EMTs and Firefighters really do that stuff all the time now a days. And, that's the real reason we have tools is to break into your stuff.

Don't mind me. I was out pulling over speeders all night with my blue light.

Man, one thread picking of firefighters & they get all butt-hurt. You guys have some REALLY thin skin.

I like most of the other LEO's on here would just want to know what you have out of curiosity lol. But by saying "its none of your business" or something along those lines, depending how it was said, I may lead me to believe that you had something you didn't want me to see in there and I may push the issue.

"You catch more bees with honey" lol

Yeah, it could be a gun case full of naked pictures of my wife (or somebody elses wife ). Those really would be none of your business.

If you did "push the issue" (whatever that means) & I still refused to tell you then what would be your next step?

Sorry, but just because I don't tell you what I have or by extension I don't allow you to search my vehicle it does not give you any PC to "push the issue". If that was the case then what would be the point of the 4A in the first place.

Sounds a lot like "if you've got nothing to hide then you won't mind me looking around/asking questions, will you".

 

[kadetklapp]

I relayed this story in another thread but I'll tell it again. Last fall I pulled over a "Pa-diddle" Jeep Grand Cherokee (headlight out). It was gun season. I walk up and the terrified 18 year old driver stared straight ahead with his hands glued to the steering wheel. I observe a Mossberg 500 with a scope on the passenger seat. NBD to me. So he asked what he should do and I tell him to just give me his "papers please." He was very anxious about the gun so I told him to relax and just don't touch it. I ran him and he was fine. I told him to take care of it and sent him on his way.

Moral of the story: So you have a gun. BFD. Don't point it at me or anyone else who doesn't deserve to have it pointed at them and we won't have a problem. Don't make an lunging moves towards it and we won't have a problem. Don't be high, drunk, wanted, or violent and we won't have a problem.

As for the cases, it's my understanding under the automobile exception that a vehicle can be searched for contraband without a warrant so long as probable cause exists. In my mind, possessing gun cases does not present probable cause of anything. My dad used to use gun cases to haul Indian artifacts to shows in. I use my Bushmaster rifle case to move around my HO scale locomotives. LOL.

 

[schafe]

......I walk up and the terrified 18 year old driver stared straight ahead with his hands glued to the steering wheel.....

I think some don't remember how unnerving and frightening it was to be stopped that first or second time. I've only been stopped three times in my lifetime and two times were within the first 5 years of getting my license.
My first was a case of mistaken identity that had me looking down the barrel of an ISPs 45. I swear I could see that hollow point down the tube! Since then, the spectre of a traffic stop makes me incredibly nervous. Justified or not, I'll be nervous....

 

[kadetklapp]

I think some don't remember how unnerving and frightening it was to be stopped that first or second time. I've only been stopped three times in my lifetime and two times were within the first 5 years of getting my license.
My first was a case of mistaken identity that had me looking down the barrel of an ISPs 45. I swear I could see that hollow point down the tube! Since then, the spectre of a traffic stop makes me incredibly nervous. Justified or not, I'll be nervous....

Well, I was under the impression that the young man was terrified that he was stopped in a small town after dark by a cop while having a shotgun in the seat next to him. He asked if I wanted to remove it and I told him no. Other officers might have.

 

[Walter Zoomie]

If it was in plain sight then they wouldn't need to examine it. They could already see it. If it's inside a case then it's not in plain sight.

Example: they can see your glove box but they can't examine it (open it)without a warrant or PC. A gun case or any other kind of a case is no different. Something illegal in plain view only gives them PC to continue a search. A long gun case isn't illegal (or is the rifle/shotgun inside) so no PC = no search.

The problem here is that we don't know it's you when we get pulled over. It could be that "one in a thousand" bad cops who is fishing for something to bust you for.

I can't remember the other poster on here I recently had a "conversation" with but it had to do with "persuading" the person he pulled over to allow him to search the vehicle when he had no PC to do it otherwise. IOW, he tricked them into giving up their rights - & then blamed them for being too stupid to realize he was doing it.

YOU may have good intentions but not every cop does. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that just because we don't want to take the chance of running afoul of "that cop" that we're being a-holes.

If you did "push the issue" (whatever that means) & I still refused to tell you then what would be your next step?

Sorry, but just because I don't tell you what I have or by extension I don't allow you to search my vehicle it does not give you any PC to "push the issue". If that was the case then what would be the point of the 4A in the first place.

Sounds a lot like "if you've got nothing to hide then you won't mind me looking around/asking questions, will you".

I agree with all of this.

Let's be honest with ourselves, folks. Yes, many of us have met some of the cops on this site. And, yes, they are cool cats.

But...if we get pulled over, and we don't know the cop as an INGO buddy, the two of us most likely will not be having a friendly BS session about guns on the side of the road.

And if we are smart, we are going to respectfully assert our rights...ALL of them...not just the 2nd...and keep our yaps shut.

I'm not consenting to a search when there's no probable cause...or a warrant...during a routine traffic stop.

(If the cop goes all Tolstoy and starts writing, so be it. See you in court, pal.)

I keep my vehicle squared away and maintain a low profile as to not attract attention.

I'll let you know how my theory works out when the time comes.

 

[USMC_0311]

*sniff, sniff* I smell pot...

Me too, want a donut?

 

[Trevlan]

Let's assume for this discussion that I was polite and not being an a-hole. I would just politely decline to open the cases if asked.

On the suspicion of you being a terrorist, they can check your vehicle or house without questions. Hold you without charge, indefinately.

In a routine stop, without probable cause, they have no right to check your vehicle. You don't need a license to carry long guns. If you want to cooperate, and show them your guns, you may choose to do so. But you are not required by law.

If we could get Bill of Rights to comment here, from what I've seen, he knows the law better than anyone on here. I think he might be a judge or a lawyer. Maybe PM him and see what he says?

 

[.40caltrucker]

Frank-N-Stein for official INGO LEO rep!

Got my vote.

But...if we get pulled over, and we don't know the cop as an INGO buddy, the two of us most likely will not be having a friendly BS session about guns on the side of the road.

Simple, everyone get an sticker on their bumper. Or how about a 1" green circle sticker on the left tail light for the cheapo in here. That outta make it easy then.

Leos should put it on their windshield so we can see it in the rear view.

 

[.40caltrucker]

On the suspicion of you being a terrorist, they can check your vehicle or house without questions. Hold you without charge, indefinately.

In a routine stop, without probable cause, they have no right to check your vehicle. You don't need a license to carry long guns. If you want to cooperate, and show them your guns, you may choose to do so. But you are not required by law.

If we could get Bill of Rights to comment here, from what I've seen, he knows the law better than anyone on here. I think he might be a judge or a lawyer. Maybe PM him and see what he says?

To much law & Order

Can you name one person wrongly accused and held in Indiana of being a terrorist for simply having long guns in the car.

 

[steveh_131]

I find it interesting to hear LEO's in one thread talk about how their job is to enforce ALL laws, and if we don't like it to take it up with the legislators.

Then in the next thread talk about how they only bother enforcing the laws if people aren't polite enough to them, like it makes them super nice guys or something.

Which is it?

 

[public servant]

Me too, want a donut?

Naaaah...I'm trying to cut back.

OK...what kind???

Funny thing...I have never been able to smell pot. Ever... Some of the people I work with can smell it like a beagle on crack. But not me.

 

[kadetklapp]

I find it interesting to hear LEO's in one thread talk about how their job is to enforce ALL laws, and if we don't like it to take it up with the legislators.

Then in the next thread talk about how they only bother enforcing the laws if people aren't polite enough to them, like it makes them super nice guys or something.

Which is it?

 

[Benny]

Naaaah...I'm trying to cut back.

OK...what kind???

Funny thing...I have never been able to smell pot. Ever... Some of the people I work with can smell it like a beagle on crack. But not me.

Duh, it's harder to smell when you're smoking it yourself.

 

[Trevlan]

To much law & Order

Can you name one person wrongly accused and held in Indiana of being a terrorist for simply having long guns in the car.

I'm just saying what the law states. In NY I was held without charge, on my way to work at Bear Sterns. They claimed that my pool case was housing a rocket launcher. Held me up until about 11 am without giving me a phone call. This happened in Grand Central station. I don't look like a terrorist, I just happened to be having a match after work and had a two stick pool case on me. I had no rights on suspicion of being a terrorist. Once they did their checks on me and had a bomb squad open my pool case, they let me go. Without saying sorry or anything.

I just moved to Indiana about 8 months ago, and I have yet to be pulled over by a police officer. If I'm pulled over, I'll give the LEO my DL and my LTCH. If he asks to see the handgun, you can tell when someone is being curious or if they are trying to be a hard ass. I wouldn't have a problem with letting any LEO see my gun.

If there is no probable cause, they have no right to search. I'm a gun nut, and I'm not the only one. I'll show you mine, if you show me yours.

It's legal to carry long arms in your trunk. You just need a license to carry a hand gun.

 

[USMC_0311]

Funny thing...I have never been able to smell pot. Ever... Some of the people I work with can smell it like a beagle on crack. But not me.

you need one of these, he will find it.

 

[.40caltrucker]

I'm just saying what the law states. In NY I was held without charge, on my way to work at Bear Sterns. They claimed that my pool case was housing a rocket launcher. Held me up until about 11 am without giving me a phone call. This happened in Grand Central station. I don't look like a terrorist, I just happened to be having a match after work and had a two stick pool case on me. I had no rights on suspicion of being a terrorist. Once they did their checks on me and had a bomb squad open my pool case, they let me go. Without saying sorry or anything.

I just moved to Indiana about 8 months ago, and I have yet to be pulled over by a police officer. If I'm pulled over, I'll give the LEO my DL and my LTCH. If he asks to see the handgun, you can tell when someone is being curious or if they are trying to be a hard ass. I wouldn't have a problem with letting any LEO see my gun.

If there is no probable cause, they have no right to search. I'm a gun nut, and I'm not the only one. I'll show you mine, if you show me yours.

It's legal to carry long arms in your trunk. You just need a license to carry a hand gun.

WOW well welcome to Indiana and congrats on getting away from communist NY. If ya haven't noticed already the police and people here are a lot nicer to each other than in NY, I would be shocked if something like that happened anywhere in Indiana (except for Gary cause it's a rat hole)

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I find it interesting to hear LEO's in one thread talk about how their job is to enforce ALL laws, and if we don't like it to take it up with the legislators.

Then in the next thread talk about how they only bother enforcing the laws if people aren't polite enough to them, like it makes them super nice guys or something.

Which is it?

Pulling someone over for a traffic/equipment infraction is enforcing the law. Citing them for it is just the next step in enforcing whichever particular law. And I'm not a super nice guy or anything, I just realize that there are people out there that can benefit from a conversation more than they can from a $150 ticket.

 

[Trevlan]

WOW well welcome to Indiana and congrats on getting away from communist NY. If ya haven't noticed already the police and people here are a lot nicer to each other than in NY, I would be shocked if something like that happened anywhere in Indiana (except for Gary cause it's a rat hole)

Trucker, you have no idea the breath of fresh air Indiana is. I was expecting to get pulled over everyday here. I'm a chinese hispanic male, far from white, and all the stories I hear about rednecks and hard ass mega cops out here are BULL****. Nice people, everyone waves at you even if they don't know you.

I respect the LEO here in Indiana because they try to do their job. Everyone is entitled to a bad day, and crap rolls down hill. If you are curtious and cooperative, you can turn any frown upsidedown.

End point: I'm not worried about getting the plunger or shot at 57 times here in Indiana. Respect the law, and those who enforce it, will respect you.

 

[Trevlan]

Pulling someone over for a traffic/equipment infraction is enforcing the law. Citing them for it is just the next step in enforcing whichever particular law. And I'm not a super nice guy or anything, I just realize that there are people out there that can benefit from a conversation more than they can from a $150 ticket.

I would not mind getting pulled over by you. So if you see a Maroon Nisan maxima (with a hispanic chink looking dude) obeying every law on Emerson, pull me over anyway. I live in Franklin township, not even 5 mins away from beech grove. My name is Frank also.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I would not mind getting pulled over by you. So if you see a Maroon Nisan maxima (with a hispanic chink looking dude) obeying every law on Emerson, pull me over anyway. I live in Franklin township, not even 5 mins away from beech grove. My name is Frank also.

I don't work that side of town and I don't drive my squad off-duty very often, so I doubt you will meet me that way. If I happen to see you when I'm out running errands, I'll honk and wave.