5.56?

[DCM8513]

Between the M855 62 grain penetrator and the M199 55 grain, what is prefered in terms of terminal balistics/external balistics and why. I dont consider myself a prepper but i think its a good idea to have a few extra rounds lying around just incase in the rare event i would need them in a self defense situation. Sorry if this isnt under the right category.

 

[car06281]

62 gr versus 55 gr

As I understand it.

The 556 is designed to tumble on entry resulting in tissue damage beyond what you get with just a normal penetration. The 62 gr bullet is good for this beyond say 150 yards out to maybe 500 yards. Below 150 yards or so you get more penetration and less tumbling. The 62 gr is a little more accurate at the longer ranges.

The 55 gr bullet tumbles better at close range out to about 200 yards or so.

This is what I've picked up in my reading. Hope this helps.

 

[2tonic]

Try this:
The AR15.com Ammo Oracle
Everything you wanted to know......even things you didn't know you wanted to know.
Long story short:

55gr (M193) destabilizes upon soft tissue entry and yaws (tumbles), breaking apart at the cannelure and causing multiple divergent wound tracks (read.... OW). This happens at velocities above approx. 2600fps, so it's good out to about 250yds, depending on barrel length, etc.

However, intermediate barriers (glass, car doors) wreak havoc on it's terminal performance, so we have:

62gr (M855) which is a longer bullet with a steel pin for a core, tolerates barriers much more ably (in fact it will penetrate both sides of a Kevlar helmet and whatever's inside it at 250yds) but gives it up on the wounding mechanics, many times leaving only a caliber sized puncture wound or thru-and-thru.
This performance (or lack of) resulted in the development of the 77gr Mk262mod1 round.

Good reading!!

 

[chuddly]

those 2 rounds are 2 completely different things in my book. The 62 gr with the steel core will really punch through something. but if you plan on using it for target practice (like steel) DONT...it will destroy it. The 55 gr is a good all around round to keep on hand. That round will do all you need to do.

 

[DCM8513]

Thats what i needed to know. Thanks guys.

 

[teddy12b]

Thats what i needed to know. Thanks guys.

In addition to what's been mentioned about these bullets at factory loaded 5.56 specs, you mentioned that you are a reloader and prepper. Keep in mind that you can buy pulled 62gr. SS109 bullets and load them to 223 specs. In the event your friend billy show up and needs ammo for his 223 bolt gun, or his dpms oracle that's chambered in 223 and not 5.56 you have something you can give him that will be 100% safe to shoot. The surplus pulled bullets run around $80 per 1000 shipped to your door on gunbroker and then you can tailor the load for accuracy and still have that SS109 performance. Just saying.

 

[DCM8513]

In addition to what's been mentioned about these bullets at factory loaded 5.56 specs, you mentioned that you are a reloader and prepper. Keep in mind that you can buy pulled 62gr. SS109 bullets and load them to 223 specs. In the event your friend billy show up and needs ammo for his 223 bolt gun, or his dpms oracle that's chambered in 223 and not 5.56 you have something you can give him that will be 100% safe to shoot. The surplus pulled bullets run around $80 per 1000 shipped to your door on gunbroker and then you can tailor the load for accuracy and still have that SS109 performance. Just saying.

NOT a prepper (nothing against them) and ive never reloaded, but you do have a good point. Thanks.

 

[DCM8513]

On the note of reloading though, if one were to purchase all components of the bullets and fabricate them himself, would you end up saving money, or are the savings in reloading only when you recycle your brass?

 

[teddy12b]

On the note of reloading though, if one were to purchase all components of the bullets and fabricate them himself, would you end up saving money, or are the savings in reloading only when you recycle your brass?

The money to be saved in reloading will come through reusing brass, and by reloading a larger volume of ammo. For example, if you buy all brand new shiney perfect brass in the bag from Gander mountain, then you probably aren't going to save that much $$. On the other hand if you buy your brass once fired frmo gunbroker in large batches then you are going to see some big savings on the components alone that really help justify the time and equipment costs.

The old saying of reloading is that you don't always end up saving money, you just end up with a whole lot more ammo for the same amount of money being spent. If you got into reloading and actually cut your total costs in half by shooting the same volume of ammo, you'd probably be the first reloader to do that ever. Everyone else turning their man cave into a minor ammunition factory.

 

[DCM8513]

The money to be saved in reloading will come through reusing brass, and by reloading a larger volume of ammo. For example, if you buy all brand new shiney perfect brass in the bag from Gander mountain, then you probably aren't going to save that much $$. On the other hand if you buy your brass once fired frmo gunbroker in large batches then you are going to see some big savings on the components alone that really help justify the time and equipment costs.

The old saying of reloading is that you don't always end up saving money, you just end up with a whole lot more ammo for the same amount of money being spent. If you got into reloading and actually cut your total costs in half by shooting the same volume of ammo, you'd probably be the first reloader to do that ever. Everyone else turning their man cave into a minor ammunition factory.

I see. Ive tossed around the idea of getting into reloading but every time I get the money to invest in reloading equipment I usualy end up spending the money on another gun or upgrades for my current guns. The problem is that there are always more guns and accessories. Vicious cycle i suppose.

 

[teddy12b]

I see. Ive tossed around the idea of getting into reloading but every time I get the money to invest in reloading equipment I usualy end up spending the money on another gun or upgrades for my current guns. The problem is that there are always more guns and accessories. Vicious cycle i suppose.

I understand completely. What put me over the edge and got me started on reloading was when I bought a 300 RUM and wanted to save $$ on ammo. I've long since sold that stupid rifle, but I'm glad that I've kept reloading. When I reload for rifles it's for long range accuracy. There's a lot of money to be saved when comparing factory match ammo prices to my match handload prices.

 

[chuddly]

i agree....i get a more accurate bullet and at prices right now (and i buy in bulk) i am loading my .223 rounds for about 40% of what i could buy them for. And at that im comparing the cheapest .223 (what you could buy) vs a pretty high quality .223 (which is what im making). So im probly closer to only paying about 25-30% of what i can buy it for if you bought the same quality ammo

 

[DCM8513]

i agree....i get a more accurate bullet and at prices right now (and i buy in bulk) i am loading my .223 rounds for about 40% of what i could buy them for. And at that im comparing the cheapest .223 (what you could buy) vs a pretty high quality .223 (which is what im making). So im probly closer to only paying about 25-30% of what i can buy it for if you bought the same quality ammo

Wow thats quite the savings. What things are you doing in order to get closer to match grade rounds in your reloads? Is this difficult to accomplish?

 

[Cerberus]

I'm reloading 5.56 grade ammo for round 18 cents a round.. Even if you only saved 5 cents a round by reloading that equates to a $50 per 1000 savings. The old saying about a penny saved is a penny earned comes into play here. I am also not at the mercy of panic buyers causing ammo to artificially go up.

 

[dukeboy_318]

The old saying of reloading is that you don't always end up saving money, you just end up with a whole lot more ammo for the same amount of money being spent. If you got into reloading and actually cut your total costs in half by shooting the same volume of ammo, you'd probably be the first reloader to do that ever. Everyone else turning their man cave into a minor ammunition factory.

Could not of put this any better. I got in to reloading so I could shoot more, not really save money. However, if one thinks about, if I buy 1000 factory rounds for 300 bucks(random figures here) and shoot it, but then reload 2000 rounds for 300 bucks, I'm saving money in theory I can shoot twice as much for the same moneyas i would if i bought the 1000 rds and save 300 bucks instead of paying 600 for 2000 factory rds, to me that's the only way to make it look like you are saving money( for those of us with spouses )

 

[DCM8513]

I know that this is slightly off topic but what are the specs of the 7.62x51 that is most commonly used by the military? What is it refered to as? Do any of you reload this round?

 

[Hazwhopper]

I reload 7.62 x 51. It is 308 round. However like many military rounds the 7.62 x 51 is a NATO round.
It is like the civilian 308. The nato round has different pressures than 308. The military uses a special
crimp, primer and powder. The civilian equivalent is WINCHESTER 308. The primer is large rifle and
The bullet is .308. There are different ammo that are referred as 7.62
NATO is loaded at higher pressures. So get at least 3 sources os reloading data before reloading
This round. Most barrels are stamped with info about load and barrel twist. All this is importat before
Reloading. It isnt hard but be very reapectfull when reloading and always use reduced loading
And work the load up. There are signs of over pressure and you should seek advice and read up.
I load this round but always checking and double checking info and measurements.

 

[DCM8513]

I understand the differnec between the two, but like the milityary's most commonly used 5.56 round is either the M193 or the M855, what is the most commonly used 7.62x51 round?

The 7.62x51 is safe to use in my remington 700 sps tactical isn't it?

 

[sloughfoot]

I understand the differnec between the two, but like the milityary's most commonly used 5.56 round is either the M193 or the M855, what is the most commonly used 7.62x51 round?

The 7.62x51 is safe to use in my remington 700 sps tactical isn't it?

Yes, the 7.62X51 NATO is safe to use in your Remington 700 SPS. The spec for the NATO round is 2750 FPS with a 147 bullet. There is also the Military match grade ammo using 168 and 175 match bullets. M118 is one of the the designations. It is also safe to use in all rifles including your bolt gun.

For some reason, I can't remember the designation of the current 175 match ammo..

Frustrating when the mind goes blank. Somebody will come along and pick up the slack.

 

[chuddly]

Wow thats quite the savings. What things are you doing in order to get closer to match grade rounds in your reloads? Is this difficult to accomplish?

The biggest things i have found to check are uniform cases, GOOD components (bullets,powders,primes), and just flat out go slow and make sure every thing absolutely the same. Pull the lever the same ever time, powerder drop consistancy all that stuff. Its the little things that make a MUCH better round