1911 -still the best?

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  • ar15_dude

    Marksman
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    As I write this, it has been almost exactly 100 years since the Model 1911 pistol was designated as the standard service pistol for U.S. armed forces. When introduced, the John M. Browning designed pistol was absolutely state-of –the art. In fact semi-automatic pistols had only been around for 15 years, if you count the “broomhandle” Mauser :C96 of 1896 as the first commercially acceptable semi-automatic pistols. As a replacement for 38 caliber revolvers, the larger caliber and superior reliability of the Model 1911 made it clearly superior. But that was 100 years ago. Let’s ask ourselves: what other products, in production or service 100 years ago, are still considered best-in-class? Would it be the Ford Model T? How about the M1903 Springfield rifle? Maybe the Wright brothers airplane? My point here is this: the world has come a long way in 100 years, and although the 1911 pistol was breakthrough when launched, and has served very well in several wars, it is not now state-of-the art for practical pistol purposes and should not be held in unreasonable reverence.

    Much of the current popularity of the 1911 comes from the writings of Col. Jeff Cooper. When he developed The Modern Technique in the 1950s, the model 1911 was only 40 or so years old. Few other semi-automatic pistols were available, and Cooper’s military experience with the 1911, combined with his preference for large calibers, led him to use and promote the 1911. The American Pistol Institute, which later became Gunsite Training Center, served as a strong advocate for the 1911, particularly during the 1980’s when many new pistol designs became available. During that same period, The Model 1911 was officially retired from military service in 1985 in favor of the Beretta M9. The cult-like following of the 1911 was never clearer than when the U.S. military was considering and selected the M9.

    Compared to many modern pistols, the 1911 is heavy, large, and low capacity. The 45 ACP cartridge is available in many other pistol designs, which unlike the classic 1911, also are available in 9x19, 40 S&W, 10mm, 357 SIG, etc. While the 1911 is known for a crisp, consistent trigger, it also is encumbered with a manual safety and a superfluous hammer. Many people find the force required to retract the slide, when the hammer is up (Condition 3) to be much greater and more difficult to accomplish than other pistols.

    The 1911 played a large role in my personal firearms experience. After saving up money for several months, I acquired a new Colt Mark IV Series 70 in 1980 for $305, As I recall, few other semi auto pistol choices were available. I remember looking at Browning Hi Power, and Smith & Wesson models 39 and 59. I carried and shot that Colt for many years, until I acquired my first Glock in 1994. I welcomed the lighter weight, enhanced corrosion resistance, and higher magazine capacity, and I found that I shot it just as well.

    Like cowboy action shooters using 1873 Colt Peacemaker copies, 1911 aficionados tend to be traditionalists, often favoring leather holsters and wood grip panels. This is contrast to more weather resistant synthetic materials used with modern pistols.

    Because of the light, consistent single action trigger, and ability to be accurized via closely fitted parts, the 1911 is a favorite among competitive shooters. At the same time, the 1911 is infrequently seen in police or global military service.

    It is a free country (at least for now), and you pay your money and make your choices. And if after considering all pistol choices with an open mind, you choose to carry (or just shoot) a 1911, then enjoy the pleasure it brings, including the nostalgia. But if you consider and select another pistol, carry and shoot it proudly, and be proud that you are an independent thinker and capable of coming to your own, perhaps superior, conclusion. Make the decision based on careful evaluation of the alternatives, and not because of what you read or what some “experts” tell you.
     

    x2bax

    Plinker
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    I agree, I have nothing but respect for the 1911, but modern materials and designs allow for the same firepower in a lighter more durable platform with greater capacity.
     

    Kick

    Grandmaster
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    I agree, I have nothing but respect for the 1911, but modern materials and designs allow for the same firepower in a lighter more durable platform with greater capacity.


    Yeah, but they are still not even remotely close to the 1911 (not that most are trying). While most people in the area I work either carry Glocks or the Springfield XDs for a duty weapon, I still carry a 1911. Although it is not the highest capacity, it does not defy gravity, and nothing on it glows in the dark, I shoot damn well with it and it is reliable. That's all I ask for in a duty weapon and it's all anyone really NEEDS.
     

    OldHoosier62

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    I have carried,shot,gunsmithed and trained others with the 1911 since the mid 70's. Call me old fashioned if you like, but it is the penultimate carry and SD firearm.

    I have carried it in every size and caliber variation available and when comparing it to my Glocks,SIGs,XDs.....they come up short in speed, controllability and concealment. Accuracy too, for that matter.

    As I said above, I own many different guns but when I carry it is either my 1911 or a DA revolver. YMMV

    OldHoosier

    Currently carrying a Commander in 9x23 Winchester in a leather Askins Avenger holster. Blending the old and new into the efficient and effective.
     

    CandRFan

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    Kokomo
    I was wondering...is there a 1911 made with a polymer frame? I know we've got them made of aluminum and other materials, but I don't recall ever seeing a 1911 in polymer. Would it still be a 1911? It would look like a 1911, it would feel like a 1911, it would operate like a 1911. But does a 1911 have to be made of some kind of metals and be a single stack to remain a 1911?

    Lots of stuff has happened in 100 years. But the 1911 is still here with us and still going strong and to me that says a lot. I do enjoy the fact that I can take a gun that's over 60 years old out to the range and it'll go bang just as loud as it did waaaaaay back when. I can't think of many things that would have been designed a century ago that I still use today, and in basically the same way it was originally designed!

    So I don't know. Is it "the best..." If you want a lighter handgun; one that is un-encumbered by a manual safety and superfluous hammer, with a larger magazine capacity then maybe it's not. All I know is that I've had to chance to shoot a lot of different handguns and was proud to be able to make my own informed conclusion as to what I liked and wanted in a handgun. And it just so happened that many "experts" have similar conclusions.

    But it all goes back to that polymer frame question. If someone put out a 1911 with a polymer frame and fattened the grip up to accept a double stack mag to give us a capacity of 12-14 rounds...in essence building a 1911 with today's advanced materials, but keeping the 1911's method of operation and all design features, would that be all that was needed to keep the 1911 as "the best" handgun?
     

    ar15_dude

    Marksman
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    I appreciate all the comments, many INGO faithful have found that the 1911 is best for them, in spite of its 100 year old design and compromises. I can respect people that evaluate their options carefully and independently, regardless of their conclusion.
     

    gunman41mag

    Shooter
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    I was wondering...is there a 1911 made with a polymer frame? I know we've got them made of aluminum and other materials, but I don't recall ever seeing a 1911 in polymer. Would it still be a 1911? It would look like a 1911, it would feel like a 1911, it would operate like a 1911. But does a 1911 have to be made of some kind of metals and be a single stack to remain a 1911?

    Lots of stuff has happened in 100 years. But the 1911 is still here with us and still going strong and to me that says a lot. I do enjoy the fact that I can take a gun that's over 60 years old out to the range and it'll go bang just as loud as it did waaaaaay back when. I can't think of many things that would have been designed a century ago that I still use today, and in basically the same way it was originally designed!

    So I don't know. Is it "the best..." If you want a lighter handgun; one that is un-encumbered by a manual safety and superfluous hammer, with a larger magazine capacity then maybe it's not. All I know is that I've had to chance to shoot a lot of different handguns and was proud to be able to make my own informed conclusion as to what I liked and wanted in a handgun. And it just so happened that many "experts" have similar conclusions.

    But it all goes back to that polymer frame question. If someone put out a 1911 with a polymer frame and fattened the grip up to accept a double stack mag to give us a capacity of 12-14 rounds...in essence building a 1911 with today's advanced materials, but keeping the 1911's method of operation and all design features, would that be all that was needed to keep the 1911 as "the best" handgun?

    I want to say that STI, KIMBER, & WILSON have polymer frame 1911:dunno:
     

    M67

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 15, 2011
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    I want to say that STI, KIMBER, & WILSON have polymer frame 1911:dunno:


    I know for a fact Kimber makes a polymer frame 1911, and I'm pretty sure it's only offered with double stack mags.


    Anyway, 1911s are just..... well....... the best :D

    They feel right, and shoot right.

    Dispite popular belief are not complicated.



    I think John Moses Browning should be a named saint, or something, for his contributions. :patriot::ar15:
     

    Hoosier45

    Snowman
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    I have a polymer frame Kimber BP Pro Ten, with 14 round magazines. Kimber also made it in a 5". I believe they were actually imported Israeli guns made by BUL.
     

    Specialized

    Marksman
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    I was wondering...is there a 1911 made with a polymer frame?
    I think one of the first was the Wilson Combat KZ-45. Double-stack in the same width grip as a standard 1911. Just about everything else about it is standard 1911. KZ's are great guns, and very reliable, with steel inserts integral to the polymer frame. Light weight combined with 1911 reliability, they're great guns in both full-sized and compact (4" barrel) frames.

    Specialized
     

    CandRFan

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    Well then! Thanks for the replies, guys!


    If we've got 1911's wearing lightweight polymer frames and with mag capacities beyond the original 7 round 1911 mags that were designed back in 1911...then yes, the 1911 is still THE best! :yesway:

    :D
     

    60Driver

    Sharpshooter
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    Sep 9, 2010
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    AR,

    A well written post and I respect your concept that each of us should choose our sidearm based on research, experience and testing. There are clearly some well proven options for a fighting pistol available today which can rival JMB's classic. I have to respectfully disagree about the design no longer being a "front line" choice though...

    One "Traditionalist" USN Aviator, Leather not Kydex-Check, Wood not G-10 Check, Single Stack - Check, Reliable and Accurate 230gr Holes - CHECK!

    picture.php


    Few others who still agree with me....

    USMC Force Recon
    USA SFOD-D / CAG
    FBI HRT
    FBI Regional SWAT
    LAPD SWAT

    The old warhorse may be getting a bit long of tooth, but trust me I, nor these guys carry one because it is cool, we carry a 1911 because it works!
     

    huntall50

    Sharpshooter
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    Jul 7, 2009
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    Best is a relative term with so many variables and so many people the 1911 is obviously not the best for everyone in every situation. But neither is any other gun. But with that said, I have owned and carried a variety of handguns but choose to keep several 1911's in the rotation. I never feel unarmed or under-gunned when I carry my 7shot compact 1911. Give honor where honor is due and come full circle and bow down to JMB and the 1911.
    But carry what ever you want!
     
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