12gauge self defense ammo?

[DRob]

I prefer the reduced recoil loads for a couple of reasons. First, over-penetration is a concern. Second, in the light Mossberg 500, full-house 00 buck loads have significant recoil which I don't want to deal with and sure don't want my wife to have to deal with. Seeing the "patterns" at 20', I may rethink my shot size. I'd like a little more spread as opposed to the one great big hole but don't know if that's even possible at that range. 20' is about what I consider the most likely maximum shot inside the house.

 

[paperboy]

I think 00 is a proven round, I am also fond of #4 buckshot as well

 

[aturk]

OP: Have you patterned your shotgun with the ammo you have?

If not, I'd hate for a home invasion be the proving ground. YOUR shotgun may not pattern the stuff as well as it needs.

No I have not. The shotgun is the last gun I think of ever taking to the range with me. I'm going to get some groupings from it this weekend though.

Just a run of the mill 870 18.5" with some bolt ons.

 

[Bigtanker]

BBI posted this in another thread a while back. Bordshot at point blank range. It was eye opening to me.
[video=youtube_share;T26cV_M_oAE]http://youtu.be/T26cV_M_oAE[/video]

 

[Opie]

The Federal LE reduced recoil 00 buck has been the most consistent buckshot I have ever used. You have chosen wisely!

 

[m82mike]

Number 2 shot and a modified choke, works for us.

 

[BE Mike]

At 8-10 yards any buckshot load will be so tight, it will be hard to tell the difference. If you don't believe me, take some cardboard to the range and shoot different buckshot loads and compare. 00, #1 and #4 will all leave a large hole, if the gun is typically choked (without some exotic attachment on the barrel).

 

[VERT]

There are a few different loads for Federal flight control, even among 00 buck. Right now my shotgun is loaded with the 8 pellet reduced recoil 00 version. LE13300 if memory serves. There is a 9 pellet version as well. I think the 8 pellet patterns a little better. My gun has an 18.5" IC barrel and this load will keep all pellets within the head area of a Q target out to about 15 yards. All pellets will stay on an 8" paper plate out to about 20-25 yards. Even in a cylinder bore shotgun all pellets stay on the plate out to 18-20 yards.

My personal preference is for reduced recoil loads. Any quality 00 or 1 buck are fine. Choose your load, hang a cheap paper plate and start at 3-5 yards checking the pattern. Keep moving back with a fresh plate. Move back so long as all pellets stay on the plate. This will give you a rough idea of your max distance for the buckshot load in your gun.

Longest distance in my house across the living and dining rooms is about 12 yards. At that distance with the 8 pellet flute control it is very much an aimed shot.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Ditto on the reduced recoil/velocity 00 buck loads. After trying different brands and loads, velocity seems to be the biggest factor for my HD shotgun... 1150 fps seems ideal, keeping all pellets on a paper plate at the 20'ish yd mark. Devastating and all pellets on target at HD range.

The full power loads with 1300+ fps velocities all had much larger patterns at closer distances, spreading beyond the paper plate at 8-10 yds. That is unacceptable for me as it greatly increases the chances of a pellet missing the target, even if well-aimed. And, the increased velocity increases over penetration concerns... a double whammy, IMO.

 

[Fordtough25]

Just grab some 00 buck loads and try them out at a distance you may shoot inside your house. Whichever one patterns the best out of your combo stick with it!!

 

[GIJEW]

I'm curious about the Federal flight-control load keeping all the shot in one big hole. Does that have some advantage in wounding/killing, and why not just use a slug?
I use Fed. reduced velocity 00B with my smooth bore, deer barrel and get 3" groups at 7yds; 5" at 10yds; 8" at 15yds. Personally, I like the idea of having a 3" wide projectile. It seems to me that it increases the probability of hitting multiple vital organs, and increases my hit probability on a moving target in the dark.

 

[VERT]

I'm curious about the Federal flight-control load keeping all the shot in one big hole. Does that have some advantage in wounding/killing, and why not just use a slug?
I use Fed. reduced velocity 00B with my smooth bore, deer barrel and get 3" groups at 7yds; 5" at 10yds; 8" at 15yds. Personally, I like the idea of having a 3" wide projectile. It seems to me that it increases the probability of hitting multiple vital organs, and increases my hit probability on a moving target in the dark.

Even a 3" group at 7 yards still makes aiming necessary. So one hole or 3" group irrelavent. Everything in one hole still does not mean simultaneous impact on the target as the shot stream is involved. The goal is to keep all pellets on the target at the necessary distance. Once the buckshot pattern opens up beyond that distance then transitioning to a slug may be necessary. Flight control or some choke might gain you a few more yards. But every gun is different.

Or you can load up with some Ranger segmenting slugs from the get go and just ignore buckshot. I tried some, didn't like the recoil and considered them a little too gimmicky for my tastes.

http://www.winchesterle.com/Product...n/ranger/segmenting-slug/Pages/RA12RS15S.aspx

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BBI posted this in another thread a while back. Bordshot at point blank range. It was eye opening to me.
[video=youtube_share;T26cV_M_oAE]http://youtu.be/T26cV_M_oAE[/video]

Just had a guy take two shots, one in the abdomen and one in the back. Looks like bad acne.

 

[BE Mike]

Just had a guy take two shots, one in the abdomen and one in the back. Looks like bad acne.

At what distance?

 

[BE Mike]

Even a 3" group patternat 7 yards still makes aiming necessary.

I agree, based on this: I knew an officer (armed with a pump shotgun) who was ambushed in a brushy area. He was shot in his off-hand arm and abdomen with a .30 cal. carbine and went down. I don't remember the exact distance of the shootout, but it was relatively close., The officer returned fire by operating his shotgun one-handed and doing a sit up to return fire. He said, "Don't let anyone tell you that you can't miss with a shotgun!" It took the officer a few shots before he scored a hit. The bad guy escaped.

 

[VERT]

I agree, based on this: I knew an officer (armed with a pump shotgun) who was ambushed in a brushy area. He was shot in his off-hand arm and abdomen with a .30 cal. carbine and went down. I don't remember the exact distance of the shootout, but it was relatively close., The officer returned fire by operating his shotgun one-handed and doing a sit up to return fire. He said, "Don't let anyone tell you that you can't miss with a shotgun!" It took the officer a few shots before he scored a hit. The bad guy escaped.

+1 for the officer

Yes Pattern and not Group. I am always thinking about hands guns that that takes clips with boolits because I have a permit. Darn INGO terminology nazis.

 

[printcraft]

At what distance?

I don't care, I've heard too many stories of ineffective penetration to know not to use it.

I still wouldn't want to get shot with it but I won't use it.

 

[KellyinAvon]

At what distance?

And what #shot? And fired from what? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

At what distance?

About 25-30'. Roughly three parking spaces wide.

And what #shot? And fired from what? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not sure, and 870.

 

[GIJEW]

I'm not sure why some of you are associating my statement about having a higher hit probability with a pattern as opposed to 1 hole, with the urban myth about not having to aim.
My question stands: what is the advantage in terminal ballistics to having all the shot in one hole as opposed to being spread out several inches where the shot could hit multiple organs?

I can see Fed's 'controlled flight' shells being important for a LEO who might likely be shooting at distances of 25 yards in public instead of under 25 feet inside his house. That all comes down to patterning and keeping all the shot on target and avoiding collateral damage. For HD I don't see the importantance or advantage of having all the shot in one hole. IS there some advantage in terms stopping the attacker?