Bass Pro’s background check policy raises questions

[mmpsteve]

Couple of points on the process. When you get there, there is a white Ipad on a white stand. You type in your name, phone number for alerts, hit the green DONE button then the green NEXT button. Not real hard. We will call out the name of the next person when we are free to help them.

Per Corporate's policy, we stay with ONE customer at a time through the whole process. If it's a quick question it doesn't take long. If the person goes into a "Research" from the FBI, we usually like to give them about 15 minutes before we assume it's going to be a Delay and we move on.

Believe me that we don't necessarily like it either but it's their house and their rules.

Hope I didn't step on any toes, flatlander. The day I describe, they were short-handed and the ipad thingy wasn't working right, etc... and the guy that did me was fairly new I think. Nothing overwhelming - all's well that end's well. I've purchased enough quality items there that it's worth a little inconvenience, if it comes to that.

I did have to laugh a little, though, at the third person that asked me where I was born.
.

 

[flatlander]

Hope I didn't step on any toes, flatlander. The day I describe, they were short-handed and the ipad thingy wasn't working right, etc... and the guy that did me was fairly new I think. Nothing overwhelming - all's well that end's well. I've purchased enough quality items there that it's worth a little inconvenience, if it comes to that.

I did have to laugh a little, though, at the third person that asked me where I was born.
.

No worries. Sometime a kid can jack up the Ipad with their little fingers. Found it on Youtube once.
Some of the people we have had are less than stellar. Some just don't get how the system works. We've also had our fair share of Fudds that hand out outdated "advice" not based on real world experience. I usually only work around the weekend so I get to enjoy the show from both sides more than I want to.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

There was a recent post here on INGO about RK doing the same thing based on address, I believe.

Yes, if an attempted purchase comes back with a NICS "DENIED", we record that as a known address of a prohibited person. We do not sell firearms to addresses where a known prohibited person resides.

Someone upthread mentioned that they would sue... good luck with that... I'd refer them back to "We do not sell firearms to addresses where a known prohibited person resides."

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Yes, if an attempted purchase comes back with a NICS "DENIED", we record that as a known address of a prohibited person. We do not sell firearms to addresses where a known prohibited person resides.

Someone upthread mentioned that they would sue... good luck with that... I'd refer them back to "We do not sell firearms to addresses where a known prohibited person resides."

What if the prohibited person no longer lives there? What if the buyer has no idea who that prohibited person is, nor where they currently live? They could have moved years ago.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

What if the prohibited person no longer lives there? What if the buyer has no idea who that prohibited person is, nor where they currently live? They could have moved years ago.

During normal daytime hours, this normally gets cleared up in a couple minutes with the customer on the phone with corporate compliance... I dial the number on our phone.

I'm not privy to the conversations, but the ones that compliance "clears" normally the customer says something like I just moved there a year ago.

Late at night/weekends, the customer has to call during business hours and we give them an instruction sheet.

It's actually fairly rare, but it does happen maybe 1 out of 200 sales. It's much more common that they answer the prohibited person questions "wrong"... twice... they get a second chance to review/correct their 4473 answers.

About equally rare as mis-spelling their own name.

 

[Creedmoor]

Yes, if an attempted purchase comes back with a NICS "DENIED", we record that as a known address of a prohibited person. We do not sell firearms to addresses where a known prohibited person resides.

Someone upthread mentioned that they would sue... good luck with that... I'd refer them back to "We do not sell firearms to addresses where a known prohibited person resides."

That was me, And I find it amazing that folks here, are OK with that corporate policy. You don't think that it violates ones civil and Constitutional Rights?
I get its ok to make the decision not to sell to someone, this is not like a Straw-man is happening in front of you, a drunk or someone under the influence.

Its an address, and a address doesn't make one a Denied Person.

Would you feel different if we dont sell guns to customers that dont park between the lines in the parking lot, or we dont sell to white guys that have ginger beards.

 

[KLB]

That was me, And I find it amazing that folks here, are OK with that corporate policy. You don't think that it violates ones civil and Constitutional Rights?
I get its ok to make the decision not to sell to someone, this is not like a Straw-man is happening in front of you, a drunk or someone under the influence.

Its an address, and a address doesn't make one a Denied Person.

Would you feel different if we dont sell guns to customers that dont park between the lines in the parking lot, or we dont sell to white guys that have ginger beards.

Am I violating your rights if I was going to sell you a gun and decide not to?

What right do you have to impel someone to provide a service?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Would you feel different if we dont sell guns to customers that dont park between the lines in the parking lot

Yes. Those bastards should be stripped of all their rights. Arrogant ***holes or too stupid to drive... either way, I wouldn't sell them a gun.

 

[Creedmoor]

Am I violating your rights if I was going to sell you a gun and decide not to?

What right do you have to impel someone to provide a service?

#1 You are not a retail business sir. As a private citizen, you are not held to the standards that of a business.
#2 The same rights that every citizen is endowed with in the United States-those provided under the Constitution and properly coded laws. Would it be ok for a retail establishment to say that they would not sell to anyone in a certain zip-code? What if that zip-code was primarily POC?
To arbitrarily deny service or right to exercise their freedoms based solely on an address absent any other articulate reason smacks of the very tyranny that has been rebelled against in this country since tea was poured into the harbor.

Would it be ok to say, The Noblesville store will no longer sell to the east side of Indiannapolis residents. Because of the crime and murders that happen there, as a only reason for not selling firearms to them.

When during the transaction does BP or Cal bells check ones drivers license against its data base of addresses?
When during the transaction is the firearm paid for at BP or Cabellas?

 

[KLB]

#1 You are not a retail business sir. As a private citizen, you are not held to the standards that of a business.
#2 The same rights that every citizen is endowed with in the United States-those provided under the Constitution and properly coded laws. Would it be ok for a retail establishment to say that they would not sell to anyone in a certain zip-code? What if that zip-code was primarily POC?
To arbitrarily deny service or right to exercise their freedoms based solely on an address absent any other articulate reason smacks of the very tyranny that has been rebelled against in this country since tea was poured into the harbor.

Would it be ok to say, The Noblesville store will no longer sell to the east side of Indiannapolis residents. Because of the crime and murders that happen there, as a only reason for not selling firearms to them.

When during the transaction does BP or Cal bells check ones drivers license against its data base of addresses?
When during the transaction is the firearm paid for at BP or Cabellas?

The constitution restricts the government, not businesses. They are companies that refuse to do business every day with people in certain states. There is nothing unconstitutional about it. The only restrictions are those made by laws given certain groups protected status.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

That was me, And I find it amazing that folks here, are OK with that corporate policy. You don't think that it violates ones civil and Constitutional Rights?

Ok with? I support it and it is part of the reason I enjoy working there. If there is a prohibited person co-resident with you, do you know the hoops you would have to jump thru to avoid violating the law of the felon having access, intentionally, unintentionally or constructively to a firearm?

**** most people, unlike those here on INGO, are COMPLETELY uneducated as to the law.

Like I said above, in a different response, this is maybe 0.5% of sales.

Don't like it?

Then don't live with a felon prohibited from having access to firearms. JMO.

If you think that violates your civil/Constitutional rights that an FFL knowing that's the situation won't sell you a firearm, then we just plain disagree.

I get its ok to make the decision not to sell to someone, this is not like a Straw-man is happening in front of you, a drunk or someone under the influence.

That's a very low bar... if RK's bar was sell to them unless they actually tell you they are buying for prohibited person... I would have quit within the first week or two.

Just a NOPE for me.

Its an address, and a address doesn't make one a Denied Person.

It's the address OF A PROHIBITED PERSON, by our own records!

Would you feel different if we dont sell guns to customers that dont park between the lines in the parking lot,

**** them... denying them a firearm purchase isn't the half of it the over-the-line-parking ***********s!

or we dont sell to white guys that have ginger beards.

Slam dunk.... gingers have no souls, therefore no Constitutional right.... pretty sure that was a 9-0 decision.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

#1 You are not a retail business sir. As a private citizen, you are not held to the standards that of a business.

Whut? Actually, an FFL, by law, is held to a HIGHER standard than a non-licensee. Read the laws. Know the laws.

#2 The same rights that every citizen is endowed with in the United States-those provided under the Constitution and properly coded laws. Would it be ok for a retail establishment to say that they would not sell to anyone in a certain zip-code? What if that zip-code was primarily POC?

Not a zip code. Not a skin color. Not a random whatever-the-****. The exact same residence AS A KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON. At least know to us.

Read the laws... a lot of knowingly or should have known....

To arbitrarily deny service or right to exercise their freedoms based solely on an address absent any other articulate reason smacks of the very tyranny that has been rebelled against in this country since tea was poured into the harbor.

Not arbitrary by address... the address of, on our records, the address of a KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON. No arbitrary addresses with odd number combinations or random/arbitrary ****-**** stuff.

Would it be ok to say, The Noblesville store will no longer sell to the east side of Indiannapolis residents.

If every address was the address of a KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON? Sure.

Otherwise, only if you live with a KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON.

Because of the crime and murders that happen there, as a only reason for not selling firearms to them.

Not some random address or red-lined address location... the specific address of a KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON.

When during the transaction does BP or Cal bells check ones drivers license against its data base of addresses?

I cannot speak to Bass Pro or Cabalas... at RK, the customer enters their part of the 4473 into the computer. We check the address matches their drivers license exactly. The system checks against the database of DENIED person's addresses, presumably a PROHIBITED person lives there.

When during the transaction is the firearm paid for at BP or Cabellas?

Again, cannot speak to BP & C, but at RK, the firearm is paid for AFTER a background check PROCEED is received. If ordered online, the firearm is paid for online, first, before all of this, before the firearm is delivered to your preferred store.

 

[Creedmoor]

Whut? Actually, an FFL, by law, is held to a HIGHER standard than a non-licensee. Read the laws. Know the laws.



Not a zip code. Not a skin color. Not a random whatever-the-****. The exact same residence AS A KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON. At least know to us.

Read the laws... a lot of knowingly or should have known....



Not arbitrary by address... the address of, on our records, the address of a KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON. No arbitrary addresses with odd number combinations or random/arbitrary ****-**** stuff.


If every address was the address of a KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON? Sure.

Otherwise, only if you live with a KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON.



Not some random address or red-lined address location... the specific address of a KNOWN PROHIBITED PERSON.


I cannot speak to Bass Pro or Cabalas... at RK, the customer enters their part of the 4473 into the computer. We check the address matches their drivers license exactly. The system checks against the database of DENIED person's addresses, presumably a PROHIBITED person lives there.


Again, cannot speak to BP & C, but at RK, the firearm is paid for AFTER a background check PROCEED is received. If ordered online, the firearm is paid for online, first, before all of this, before the firearm is delivered to your preferred store.

Your bosses are using THERE MORAL GROUNDS to make a business decision. And thats a problem.

That address could be but most likely its not where a prohibitive person lives, you all and your data base have no idea who lives in that home, None.
You dont think that data base is being racist against anyone that moves into the address? you dont think that the longer that data base is added to the more racist it becomes?
Its blatant racism on its face.
They will come to an end. The right person gets denied and it will be done with.
Its shocking to me that so many are good with this Companies policy's.
One is being denied service because of there address...

 

[TheGrumpyGuy]

Your bosses are using THERE MORAL GROUNDS to make a business decision. And thats a problem.

That address could be but most likely its not where a prohibitive person lives, you all and your data base have no idea who lives in that home, None.
You dont think that data base is being racist against anyone that moves into the address? you dont think that the longer that data base is added to the more racist it becomes?
Its blatant racism on its face.
They will come to an end. The right person gets denied and it will be done with.
Its shocking to me that so many are good with this Companies policy's.
One is being denied service because of there address...

So tell me, just how many 'prohibited persons' reside at your address? (asking for a friend)

 

[Creedmoor]

Ok with? I support it and it is part of the reason I enjoy working there. If there is a prohibited person co-resident with you, do you know the hoops you would have to jump thru to avoid violating the law of the felon having access, intentionally, unintentionally or constructively to a firearm?

**** most people, unlike those here on INGO, are COMPLETELY uneducated as to the law.

Like I said above, in a different response, this is maybe 0.5% of sales.

Don't like it?

Then don't live with a felon prohibited from having access to firearms. JMO.

If you think that violates your civil/Constitutional rights that an FFL knowing that's the situation won't sell you a firearm, then we just plain disagree.


That's a very low bar... if RK's bar was sell to them unless they actually tell you they are buying for prohibited person... I would have quit within the first week or two.

Just a NOPE for me.


It's the address OF A PROHIBITED PERSON, by our own records!


**** them... denying them a firearm purchase isn't the half of it the over-the-line-parking ***********s!



Slam dunk.... gingers have no souls, therefore no Constitutional right.... pretty sure that was a 9-0 decision.

The big question really is, The business and its database have absolutely no idea who is living at that address. They just dont know.
Its an address, not a prohibitided person buying a firearm.
Like I said, the right person comes along and gets denied, game over.
It sometimes shocks me what so many gun people are OK with.
Yep, we disagree.

 

[Creedmoor]

So tell me, just how many 'prohibited persons' reside at your address? (asking for a friend)

Ask you shy friend this,
Would would know all who has lived in a property you bought, say 10 years ago or last month? The answer is NOPE you don't know.
I own a piece of property that I bought at a HUD foreclosure auction a few years back. It was obvious that it had had a swat team use flash bangs with pulling a few windows out. The mom went to jail and the son went to prison on more than one occasion.
So if one of them has tried to buy a firearm at one of these stores that keeps a data base. Now I'm going to be denied over an address of property that I now own that I live on.

Do you own a home or homes? how many felons or prohibited persons lived in those property's before you?
What if you own an apt building and live in one of those apartments, and a prohibited person at one time lived in one of those apartments with a non felon.

I wonder why this isn't being done with a NICS Check.

 

[KLB]

Your bosses are using THERE MORAL GROUNDS to make a business decision. And thats a problem.

That address could be but most likely its not where a prohibitive person lives, you all and your data base have no idea who lives in that home, None.
You dont think that data base is being racist against anyone that moves into the address? you dont think that the longer that data base is added to the more racist it becomes?
Its blatant racism on its face.
They will come to an end. The right person gets denied and it will be done with.
Its shocking to me that so many are good with this Companies policy's.
One is being denied service because of there address...

Do you disagree with Christians being able to deny service to gay marriages?

I can't believe you seriously went the racist route here. Please explain how an inanimate database of people and addresses of denied applications can be racist.

You also apparently missed the part where there is a way to appeal the decision talking to the corporate office.

 

[TheGrumpyGuy]

Ask you shy friend this,
Would would know all who has lived in a property you bought, say 10 years ago or last month? The answer is NOPE you don't know.
I own a piece of property that I bought at a HUD foreclosure auction a few years back. It was obvious that it had had a swat team use flash bangs with pulling a few windows out. The mom went to jail and the son went to prison on more than one occasion.
So if one of them has tried to buy a firearm at one of these stores that keeps a data base. Now I'm going to be denied over an address of property that I now own that I live on.

Do you own a home or homes? how many felons or prohibited persons lived in those property's before you?
What if you own an apt building and live in one of those apartments, and a prohibited person at one time lived in one of those apartments with a non felon.

I wonder why this isn't being done with a NICS Check.

Seems to me the store (corporate or otherwise) would simply be doing its due diligence (as well as to keep their ass out of a sling) to prevent a possible straw purchase with keeping such a database. And it's not their job to keep tabs on that denied individual so that they can clear that address out of said database when Mr./Mrs. prohibited person moves to a new location.

If I'm not mistaken, someone upthread who actually works in one of these stores indicated the company has a procedure in place that takes care of these denials fairly quick when they come up, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal. I mean, you (and I) probably waste more time on this forum than either of us would ever have to spend to resolve an issue like this...

And how the hell is a NICS check going to prevent this unless everyone (felons included) contact said .gov agency to update their address any time they move?

 

[flatlander]

Your bosses are using THERE MORAL GROUNDS to make a business decision. And thats a problem.

That address could be but most likely its not where a prohibitive person lives, you all and your data base have no idea who lives in that home, None.
You dont think that data base is being racist against anyone that moves into the address? you dont think that the longer that data base is added to the more racist it becomes?
Its blatant racism on its face.
They will come to an end. The right person gets denied and it will be done with.
Its shocking to me that so many are good with this Companies policy's.
One is being denied service because of there address...

You lost the argument when you brought race into it. Ridiculous

 

[Creedmoor]

You lost the argument when you brought race into it. Ridiculous

Its funny the only thing you keep saying is "prohibited Person" The person buying the firearm has been moved to Proceed,,,,.
You haven't really had any answers.


And the question again, If this was acceptable, why doesn't the NICS Check utilize this process?