Thoughts on private gun sales

[bwframe]

I sometimes request sellers bring the gun unloaded, lol...

Rule #1 - All guns are always loaded.

That's why I always treat them that way, and ask you to do the same.

...It might just be me, but about half the people i met through the classies showed up, not in uniform, but driving marked cars...

I have bought from and sold to a LOT of INGO officers over the years. Most of the time, it only came up in small talk at the meet. I did meet an INGOer in uniform, in their commission once though. They were on their way to work.


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[BigRed3588]

I require a valid license, CWP (that’s what it’s called in FL), and a signed bill of sale. I record their name, city of residence (no address), and last 4 digits of the DLN or CWP. I also typically snap a photo of their plate as they pull in and send it to a family member. It probably sounds over the top but there are a LOT of shady individuals in South Florida.

When I sold to Ingo members, I typically just asked to see their license.

 

[bwframe]

I require a valid license, CWP (that’s what it’s called in FL), and a signed bill of sale. I record their name, city of residence (no address), and last 4 digits of the DLN or CWP. I also typically snap a photo of their plate as they pull in and send it to a family member. It probably sounds over the top but there are a LOT of shady individuals in South Florida.

When I sold to Ingo members, I typically just asked to see their license.

I know they have some odd laws in Florida, regarding carry. Are there any Florida laws down there that make a private sale legally different than up here?


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[BigRed3588]

I know they have some odd laws in Florida, regarding carry. Are there any Florida laws down there that make a private sale legally different than up here?


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It’s pretty much the same in terms of P2P sales. The one difference I’ve noticed is buyers will often request the serial number before meeting. Florida has a website that allows buyers to run the serial number to verify the gun isn’t stolen. Indiana may have the same thing but it’s not something that ever came up when I bought/sold guns there.

 

[bwframe]

It’s pretty much the same in terms of P2P sales. The one difference I’ve noticed is buyers will often request the serial number before meeting. Florida has a website that allows buyers to run the serial number to verify the gun isn’t stolen. Indiana may have the same thing but it’s not something that ever came up when I bought/sold guns there.

I'm sure that only LEO may do a serial number check in Indiana? Otherwise we would all know and do it here?

Got a link for the stolen serial number check site? Wonder if the link only works for Florida?


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[BigRed3588]

I'm sure that only LEO may do a serial number check in Indiana? Otherwise we would all know and do it here?

Got a link for the stolen serial number check site? Wonder if the link only works for Florida?


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Stolen Guns

Looks like this one is unique to Florida.

 

[FNparabellum]

That's "all you do"? For many, that is too much.

Sure, could be. But at the end of the day im just covering my ass. Ive seen people go into gunshops and make the buyer do a background check. Thats far more then my simple ID and bill of sale

 

[SheepDog4Life]

My preference is, when I decide to sell a gun, to sell it to someone I know... someone I KNOW is not a prohibited person.

Here's the preamble for private sales in USC:

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person, including as a juvenile—

In a perfect world, everyone would agree on what "reasonable cause to believe" means... in the world we live in, it's up to the jury to decide.

In a perfect world, a prohibited person who passed a "smell test", who then was facing a 10 year prison sentence for felon with a firearm wouldn't lie and say you knowingly sold it to him to try to get years off his sentence, but that's not the world we live in. And in THAT world, I do not want to have a trail of posts indicating, basically, that "I ask no questions, so just don't tell me."

In a perfect world, CI's wouldn't lie, in the world we live in, they do... just ask Randy Weaver.

So, to protect myself, I'm going to ask to see an LTCH in addition to your IN DL. Every time. And, yes, it will be in my ad.

If that means you won't be interested in buying a firearm from me, I'm fine with that... because it also means the above prohibited person or CI won't be either and will move on to greener pastures.

I'm fine with that... I don't need to sell any firearm that badly.

 

[Route 45]

My preference is, when I decide to sell a gun, to sell it to someone I know... someone I KNOW is not a prohibited person.

I don’t think the last couple of mass shooters were “prohibited persons.”

I used to enjoy selling a gun to buy another, just to try out the new latest and greatest. I took every reasonable precaution to ensure that the purchaser was a “proper” person. But outside of maybe a good friend or family member, I’ll never sell a gun person-to-person ever again.

Fact of the matter is, you have no way of knowing if your “proper” person is going to snap tomorrow. Or if he is going to resell the same firearm to someone else who is not all that proper.

Nothing wrong with FTF private sales, and there is no legal jeaporady as long as you reasonably believe that the buyer is not prohibited. I just don’t need the headache of being asked about the gun that I sold a few months ago winding up in the hands of Shooter McNutbag at the local mall. And no bill of sale, license plate photo or drop of blood is going to ward off that knock on the door.

I’ll use the local gun shop and their consignment program if I want to sell any guns going forward. That way, it officially ain’t my gun no more.

 

[bwframe]

My preference is, when I decide to sell a gun, to sell it to someone I know... someone I KNOW is not a prohibited person.

Here's the preamble for private sales in USC:

In a perfect world, everyone would agree on what "reasonable cause to believe" means... in the world we live in, it's up to the jury to decide.

In a perfect world, a prohibited person who passed a "smell test", who then was facing a 10 year prison sentence for felon with a firearm wouldn't lie and say you knowingly sold it to him to try to get years off his sentence, but that's not the world we live in. And in THAT world, I do not want to have a trail of posts indicating, basically, that "I ask no questions, so just don't tell me."

In a perfect world, CI's wouldn't lie, in the world we live in, they do... just ask Randy Weaver.

So, to protect myself, I'm going to ask to see an LTCH in addition to your IN DL. Every time. And, yes, it will be in my ad.

If that means you won't be interested in buying a firearm from me, I'm fine with that... because it also means the above prohibited person or CI won't be either and will move on to greener pastures.

I'm fine with that... I don't need to sell any firearm that badly.

Why not just take your gun to an FFL for transfer? Wouldn't that eliminate all of your fears of not vetting your buyer adequately enough to feel comfortable with the sale?

As a side note, going through an FFL could ease the mind of some buyers with a similar paranoia of being sold a stolen firearm, right?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems to me that those who are scared of getting something wrong in a sale or a buy could remove ALL questions of legitimacy and responsibility by simply taking this transaction to those who do it for a living?


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[JettaKnight]

If you’re caught with a stolen firearm,that’s a crime. You may get out of it but still taking a ride and going to court to explain the situation on how you got the gun. If I do buy used,I keep screenshots of text messages to show where it comes from as well. Just my way of doing things. Never had an issue but heard of a few people who did. One paid around $600 for a Glock,had the numbers ran by PD and it was stolen. Private seller sold it to him

good reason not to buy Glocks.

 

[Gabriel]

My preference is, when I decide to sell a gun, to sell it to someone I know... someone I KNOW is not a prohibited person.

I'm good friends with several prohibited people, so I can't quite say that just because I know someone that they aren't a prohibited person.

 

[bwframe]

I'm good friends with several prohibited people, so I can't quite say that just because I know someone that they aren't a prohibited person.

A lot of times even good friends might not readily volunteer that they are prohibited. Often "criminal past" doesn't come up in casual conversation. They also may not understand the grey area of whatever their legal issues of the past may have done to their status.

I have a pretty good fishing buddy. I mentioned to him that I was selling a pistol to an online acquaintance. Fishing buddy mentions his daughter thought she would like to have "some protection." Then goes on to say that daughter was better now after having "some problems" and being diagnosed as bipolar. I gracefully told him that I couldn't legally sell daughter any guns. He naively mentioned that I could still sell him a gun, if I wanted. I, again tactfully, told him no I could not, after that conversation.

The point is that you cannot KNOWINGLY sell to a prohibited person. Nothing in the law makes it your responsibility to "background check" any potential buyer of your gun for sale.


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[Gabriel]

A lot of times even good friends might not readily volunteer that they are prohibited.

I arrested one of them.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Why not just take your gun to an FFL for transfer? Wouldn't that eliminate all of your fears of not vetting your buyer adequately enough to feel comfortable with the sale?

As a side note, going through an FFL could ease the mind of some buyers with a similar paranoia of being sold a stolen firearm, right?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems to me that those who are scared of getting something wrong in a sale or a buy could remove ALL questions of legitimacy and responsibility by simply taking this transaction to those who do it for a living?


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I've explained what I do when selling to strangers and why... I'm comfortable with a peek at a DL and a LTCH and feel that is reasonable.

If you only feel comfortable with an FFL transfer, then do that.

 

[Route 45]

Why not just take your gun to an FFL for transfer? Wouldn't that eliminate all of your fears of not vetting your buyer adequately enough to feel comfortable with the sale?

As a side note, going through an FFL could ease the mind of some buyers with a similar paranoia of being sold a stolen firearm, right?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems to me that those who are scared of getting something wrong in a sale or a buy could remove ALL questions of legitimacy and responsibility by simply taking this transaction to those who do it for a living?


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What, and lose $25 for a transfer fee?

Priorities, man!

 

[bwframe]

I've explained what I do when selling to strangers and why... I'm comfortable with a peek at a DL and a LTCH and feel that is reasonable.

If you only feel comfortable with an FFL transfer, then do that.

I think that I have made it pretty clear exactly what I'm comfortable with throughout this thread?

I'm comfortable doing exactly what is legally required and not overthinking my responsibility beyond that.


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[SheepDog4Life]

I think that I have made it pretty clear exactly what I'm comfortable with throughout this thread?

I'm comfortable doing exactly what is legally required and not overthinking my responsibility beyond that.

Which is odd... since you recommend doing exactly the opposite of that... what's up with that?

Why not just take your gun to an FFL for transfer? Wouldn't that eliminate all of your fears of not vetting your buyer adequately enough to feel comfortable with the sale?

As a side note, going through an FFL could ease the mind of some buyers with a similar paranoia of being sold a stolen firearm, right?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems to me that those who are scared of getting something wrong in a sale or a buy could remove ALL questions of legitimacy and responsibility by simply taking this transaction to those who do it for a living?


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[Destro]

As a side note, going through an FFL could ease the mind of some buyers with a similar paranoia of being sold a stolen firearm, right?

How? A NICS check does not include a NCIC check of the item being transferred.

 

[marvin02]

Why not just take your gun to an FFL for transfer?

Not all FFLs will perform this service. They have no legal obligation to do so. So if anyone is considering this make sure you check with the FFL you intend to use.