Amazon workers just voted to join a union

[K_W]

New union = More campaing revenue for the Democrats.

 

[wtburnette]

The only negotiating thats done when a corporations employees vote to go Union are the company accepts the employees are going Union or the doors get closed.
What a great bargining table that is, for a for profit company

If your Amazon delivery guy truly was unhappy, he would find new employment.

True to a point, but also a bit disingenuous. There aren't a ton of unskilled jobs making the same level of money. There also aren't too many that can work that many hours and educate and better themselves after hours to earn a better salary with a better career. Especially if you throw family responsibilities in the mix. Back in the day, I worked 2 jobs while going to college part time to earn a degree and that was after doing a stint in the Army to pay for my education. I feel like not as many want to work that hard any more. There are a ton of people who feel like they shouldn't put in the effort and any job they take should automatically provide them enough money and benefits not only for themselves, but for a family of 4. The world just doesn't work that way.

Anyway, to the topic of the Amazon union, I guess I just don't get it. I'm against unions. They had their time and place but the time and place are over IMO. This is where I agree with Creedmoor that if they wages, hours or such aren't to the employees liking, they can go elsewhere. The company has to have workers so if they can't retain workers they would have to provide better. This smacks of what I was saying in the previous paragraph, people seem to feel that any job they pick should automatically provide them with everything they need without effort. I guess I should admit there are some areas where jobs aren't as available, but in those cases people should move to areas where jobs are more plentiful, or commute. Most problems have solutions, even if they aren't easy solutions.

 

[Creedmoor]

They negotiate a contract. I don't think that's to hard to understand.

So tell me, if your last name was Walton and one of your distribution centers voted to go union like say,,,, now are you going to now sit at the table and bargin or just shut the distribution center down and lay the 1,000 employees off.
And lets remember im a retired Union man.

 

[Jaybird1980]

So tell me, if your last name was Walton and one of your distribution centers voted to go union like say,,,, now are you going to now sit at the table and bargin or just shut the distribution center down and lay the 1,000 employees off.
And lets remember im a retired Union man.

Well I guess it would depend on how bad they need that distribution center. The workers have the right to unionize and they did it. You said the employees tell the company what benefits they are going to receive, and that's nonsense. They negotiate, a retired union man should understand the difference.

 

[Pepi]

Unions at one time were great. Now, they will suck you dry

 

[Jaybird1980]

True to a point, but also a bit disingenuous. There aren't a ton of unskilled jobs making the same level of money. There also aren't too many that can work that many hours and educate and better themselves after hours to earn a better salary with a better career. Especially if you throw family responsibilities in the mix. Back in the day, I worked 2 jobs while going to college part time to earn a degree and that was after doing a stint in the Army to pay for my education. I feel like not as many want to work that hard any more. There are a ton of people who feel like they shouldn't put in the effort and any job they take should automatically provide them enough money and benefits not only for themselves, but for a family of 4. The world just doesn't work that way.

Anyway, to the topic of the Amazon union, I guess I just don't get it. I'm against unions. They had their time and place but the time and place are over IMO. This is where I agree with Creedmoor that if they wages, hours or such aren't to the employees liking, they can go elsewhere. The company has to have workers so if they can't retain workers they would have to provide better. This smacks of what I was saying in the previous paragraph, people seem to feel that any job they pick should automatically provide them with everything they need without effort. I guess I should admit there are some areas where jobs aren't as available, but in those cases people should move to areas where jobs are more plentiful, or commute. Most problems have solutions, even if they aren't easy solutions.

I always hear this argument. I think you're able to have a civil discussion so I will ask you when was their time and place and why were they needed?

 

[Creedmoor]

True to a point, but also a bit disingenuous. There aren't a ton of unskilled jobs making the same level of money. There also aren't too many that can work that many hours and educate and better themselves after hours to earn a better salary with a better career. Especially if you throw family responsibilities in the mix. Back in the day, I worked 2 jobs while going to college part time to earn a degree and that was after doing a stint in the Army to pay for my education. I feel like not as many want to work that hard any more. There are a ton of people who feel like they shouldn't put in the effort and any job they take should automatically provide them enough money and benefits not only for themselves, but for a family of 4. The world just doesn't work that way.

Anyway, to the topic of the Amazon union, I guess I just don't get it. I'm against unions. They had their time and place but the time and place are over IMO. This is where I agree with Creedmoor that if they wages, hours or such aren't to the employees liking, they can go elsewhere. The company has to have workers so if they can't retain workers they would have to provide better. This smacks of what I was saying in the previous paragraph, people seem to feel that any job they pick should automatically provide them with everything they need without effort. I guess I should admit there are some areas where jobs aren't as available, but in those cases people should move to areas where jobs are more plentiful, or commute. Most problems have solutions, even if they aren't easy solutions.

Most of those are personal choices that one has to make in life.
Like my father I always worked two jobs, my night job was either, for fun, vacation or hobbie money.
I believe we have many in the work force and in the service that work, save and move up still. We dont see them because they are working.
And lets also understand a person in good health can go and pick prouduct in many companies distrubtion centers and with making good rates make 25 -32 dollars an hour. Thats pretty good bread for unskilled labor slinging bags of pet food on pallets.
Im a firm believer that if Unions disappear shortly also many of the bargined for perks that Union members enjoy, have bleed over the last 100 years to the non union businesses. Does one honestly believe that the non union companies will continue the perks without the threat of employees voting to go Union?

 

[Creedmoor]

Well I guess it would depend on how bad they need that distribution center. The workers have the right to unionize and they did it. You said the employees tell the company what benefits they are going to receive, and that's nonsense. They negotiate, a retired union man should understand the difference.

What i'm saying is the the for profit company is put in the corner if employees vote to become a Union work force. If employees vote to become Union the company does not have the option to continue on with that business in that location as they were the day before the vote was taken.
The options are to bargin or close the doors.

If I was business owner im not sure I would like those options.

 

[Jaybird1980]

What i'm saying is the the for profit company is put in the corner if employees vote to become a Union work force. If employees vote to become Union the company does not have the option to continue on with that business in that location as they were the day before the vote was taken.
The options are to bargin or close the doors.

If I was business owner im not sure I would like those options.

If they didn't put the employees in a position of thinking they need a union to have a fair work environment then they wouldn't have organized.

 

[Creedmoor]

If they didn't put the employees in a position of thinking they need a union to have a fair work environment then they wouldn't have organized.

Im quite sure that happens.
We have plenty of greed in America.
I gave a good friend thats on the bargining committee at the Marion Stamping Plant.
A few of the things they wanted for this contract were a full sized indoor wood floor basketball gymnasium and a indoor Olympic size pool.
One committee man told GM its there job to get as much per hour as possible a
with as little work that can be done.
And we ask why the public hates unions?

They can get a rebate I believe up to $650 for a gym membership. Vertually no one does it.

 

[Creedmoor]

If they didn't put the employees in a position of thinking they need a union to have a fair work environment then they wouldn't have organized.

What is a fair work environment to you?

 

[Ingomike]

FIFY

Nope, they all suck…

 

[Ingomike]

Unions at one time were great. Now, they will suck you dry

Yes sir. They had their day. They were absorbed by a political party and are nothing but a worker paid division of that political party…

 

[femurphy77]

Hope they are realistic in what they expect to happen now. I worked at a place where some people were talking about joining a union. They seemed to think as soon as they joined they would have benefits and higher wages. I left there before anything got serious but don't think they ever did.
Another place I worked was a small electric motor/machine shop and one of the nine employees contacted the IBEW and got things set up and a vote done. The company put out a lot of BS about how everyone was better off without a union. Vote went 8 to 1 with my vote the only one "for." Yes, the person that started it all ended up voting against the union. You can bet your a** in a small shop I never admitted to anyone I had that lone vote. Left there soon anyway. Jim.

I worked at one of the few remaining non-union Goodyear plants (at the time) and saw two union drives while we were there. I didn't sign a card the first time but did the second time because I was on my way out the door for the last time when they approached me.

I received a LOT of pressure to sign one the first time but they could never give me a good reason why I should. Our wages were the highest in the corporation, we had on site swimming pool, football and baseball fields, a fully staffed med center including pharmacy and vision. Multiple "family days" per year and plenty of other perks. Our medical, vision and prescription coverage was second to none. Whenever the industry took a dump the union plants would furlough everyone. Our production would shut down but they would have week or two long "team building" events. In other words we kept getting paid and didn't have to worry how many of us would go back to work and when.

The second drive they had I wished them luck but they didn't happen to understand that all of those perks, wages, etc. listed above would go away and have to be negotiated for. The best they could hope for would be to break even but then they would have the honor of paying union dues, shutting down whenever the industry took a dump etc. Unions have their place but it ain't all champagne dreams and caviar wishes.

Not bashing, just sharing one of my experiences. I've been union represented at several different jobs and they never did anything for me.

(that oughta stir it up)

 

[wtburnette]

I always hear this argument. I think you're able to have a civil discussion so I will ask you when was their time and place and why were they needed?

In the past employers were allowed horrible work environments that unions changed, though things have improved to the point where they're no longer needed.

Does one honestly believe that the non union companies will continue the perks without the threat of employees voting to go Union?

Absolutely yes. We now have telephone, internet, social media etc where we can communicate pretty much instantly, from one end of the globe to the other. If companies didn't compete with each other to provide good working conditions and such, they would lose employees to those who will.

Let's put it this way, I worked for UPS back in the day and the union was Teamsters. I saw a lot of money go out of my check and the only thing I saw for it was bad workers being kept on the job who should have been let go. Went to college and got my IT degree and have since worked for non-union companies and my wages and benefits have continued to improve.

 

[Ingomike]

I always hear this argument. I think you're able to have a civil discussion so I will ask you when was their time and place and why were they needed?

At the dawn of the 20th century. A time when men died daily in factories making cars and the like. There were no work regulations, no OSHA. That has all changed, the federal regulations are likely better than the early union contracts.

The unions were needed and successful beyond their original goals and now cost their members and society…

 

[Ingomike]

Most of those are personal choices that one has to make in life.
Like my father I always worked two jobs, my night job was either, for fun, vacation or hobbie money.
I believe we have many in the work force and in the service that work, save and move up still. We dont see them because they are working.
And lets also understand a person in good health can go and pick prouduct in many companies distrubtion centers and with making good rates make 25 -32 dollars an hour. Thats pretty good bread for unskilled labor slinging bags of pet food on pallets.
Im a firm believer that if Unions disappear shortly also many of the bargined for perks that Union members enjoy, have bleed over the last 100 years to the non union businesses. Does one honestly believe that the non union companies will continue the perks without the threat of employees voting to go Union?

Companies will do what the market requires them to do based on labor supply and demand…

 

[Ingomike]

If they didn't put the employees in a position of thinking they need a union to have a fair work environment then they wouldn't have organized.

This fails to recognize the sales effort the unions employ to win a vote…

 

[wtburnette]

At the dawn of the 20th century. A time when men died daily in factories making cars and the like. There were no work regulations, no OSHA. That has all changed, the federal regulations are likely better than the early union contracts.

The unions were needed and successful beyond their original goals and now cost their members and society…

Much better put than what I said...

If they didn't put the employees in a position of thinking they need a union to have a fair work environment then they wouldn't have organized.

Or and probably much more likely, Progressive activists pushed for it.

In any event, just because the employees feel like they deserve more doesn't necessarily make it true. Do fast food employees deserve $15+ an hour? No, but they could unionize and force companies to pay that. Ironic that they didn't need to as instead there was pressure from the socialists and unwashed masses that have lead to this in a lot of places anyway. Not that it has had the desired effect, but that's beside the point.

What does Amazon pay it's workers? I saw signs here a while back advertising $18 an hour for Amazon warehouse positions. Is that too low? I mean, it's unskilled manual labor, so what exactly is that worth? Do they not have benefits? I guess I'm just not sure exactly what the gripe is. I read the CNBC article but it didn't state what the actual concerns were, at least not in depth. Just alluded to employee churn and how politicians had pushed a certain message. What are the actual issues the employees have and is Unionizing likely to solve those concerns?

 

[Ingomike]

Much better put than what I said...



Or and probably much more likely, Progressive activists pushed for it.

In any event, just because the employees feel like they deserve more doesn't necessarily make it true. Do fast food employees deserve $15+ an hour? No, but they could unionize and force companies to pay that. Ironic that they didn't need to as instead there was pressure from the socialists and unwashed masses that have lead to this in a lot of places anyway. Not that it has had the desired effect, but that's beside the point.

What does Amazon pay it's workers? I saw signs here a while back advertising $18 an hour for Amazon warehouse positions. Is that too low? I mean, it's unskilled manual labor, so what exactly is that worth? Do they not have benefits? I guess I'm just not sure exactly what the gripe is. I read the CNBC article but it didn't state what the actual concerns were, at least not in depth. Just alluded to employee churn and how politicians had pushed a certain message. What are the actual issues the employees have and is Unionizing likely to solve those concerns?

My guess is the problem with all theses jobs, Amazon and fast food, is not pay, it is they actually require the individual to work…