Why does Ukraine matter?

[JettaKnight]

All things you have been critical of. So now you're saying he's a Trumper? We have gone through the looking glass obviously.

Um, take a look at the avatar now.


I stand vindicated.

 

[rob63]

I suppose I will soon be labeled a KGB operative for posting this, but I will risk it just because I think it worthwhile to get a perspective that is not shown in the msm. This guy is a West Point grad, and teaches political science at the Univ. Of Chicago. It was posted a day or two before the actual invasion so parts of it are obsolete. The talk was given to a group called Kings Politics at the Univ. of Cambridge in England. The gist of it is the first 20 minutes or so, questions and answers make it an hour and a half. The Q&A are also worth the time, as he gets into the coming disputes with China, amongst other things. I'm not saying this is definitely a correct viewpoint, but as I try to get up to speed, this guy is making a lot of sense to me.

 

[JettaKnight]

What obligations does the U.S. have to protect Ukraine from Russia other than it's a money laundering machine for the American elites?

They're not NATO members, so not as much. But, are the Baltics next?

 

[Tombs]

They're not NATO members, so not as much. But, are the Baltics next?

I don't think Russia is dumb enough to invade a NATO nation.

Fears of Ukraine joining NATO have something to do with the current conflict.

 

[wagyu52]

What obligations does the U.S. have to protect Ukraine from Russia other than it's a money laundering machine for the American elites?

Well there’s this

In a historic moment, the West cannot look away from Ukraine

The United States has legal, moral, humanitarian, and practical reasons to support Ukraine’s territorial integrity by any means possible. Those means include sanctions, but the West should also consider other measures, including NATO support for an enclave in Western Ukraine controlled by...

thebulletin.org

The Budapest Memorandum and U.S. Obligations | Brookings

On the twentieth anniversary of the signing of the Budapest Memorandum, Steven Pifer, one of the negotiators of that document, writes that it is time for the Unites States to make good on the security assurances it made to Ukraine. Doing so could prevent future nuclear proliferation.

www.brookings.edu

 

[gvbcraig]

I watched the video, 15 minutes into it, it was obvious what the political leanings of this group that sponsored it is. I need not say more.

 

[Tombs]

Well there’s this

In a historic moment, the West cannot look away from Ukraine

The United States has legal, moral, humanitarian, and practical reasons to support Ukraine’s territorial integrity by any means possible. Those means include sanctions, but the West should also consider other measures, including NATO support for an enclave in Western Ukraine controlled by...

thebulletin.org

It's not my fault Ukraine didn't read the agreement. They were given "security assurances" not "mutual military aid."

I'd recommend you read up on agreements that created military aid obligations.

 

[oze]

I don't think Russia is dumb enough to invade a NATO nation.

Fears of Ukraine joining NATO have something to do with the current conflict.

I think that, for a megalomaniac like Putin, trying to connect Kaliningrad to the rest of Mama Russia would be an awfully tempting Phase II if things work out for him in Ukraine or a consolation prize if not. Unfortunately, the only way to do so would be to annex parts of Poland and/or Lithuania.

 

[Tombs]

I think that, for a megalomaniac like Putin, trying to connect Kaliningrad to the rest of Mama Russia would be an awfully tempting Phase II if things work out for him in Ukraine or a consolation prize if not. Unfortunately, the only way to do so would be to annex parts of Poland and/or Lithuania.

Russia has no real power projection ability beyond their borders. The US military is built for power projection from the ground up, and has decades more advanced technology. People DRAMATICALLY under rate the US's capabilities.

There's no way he could do that unless he just holds the world hostage with nukes and everyone capitulates.

 

[oze]

Judging by those posters I don't need to watch the video to guess the political leanings of its author(s).

 

[oze]

Russia has no real power projection ability beyond their borders. The US military is built for power projection from the ground up, and has decades more advanced technology. People DRAMATICALLY under rate the US's capabilities.

There's no way he could do that unless he just holds the world hostage with nukes and everyone capitulates.

Hope you're right. But a wee tiny part of me would like to see the Polish military turned on the ragtag, overextended Russkies for some 80+ year-delayed payback.

 

[Wolfhound]

Judging by those posters I don't need to watch the video to guess the political leanings of its author(s).

I think Rob was just throwing that out as another thing to consider. The purple fist did have me scratching my head though. The guy did go to West Point but is now a Poli-Sci professor in Chicago so idk.

 

[kiddchaos]

Please stand by...

 

[oze]

I think Rob was just throwing that out as another thing to consider. The purple fist did have me scratching my head though. The guy did go to West Point but is now a Poli-Sci professor in Chicago so idk.

Ooops, I didn't attach the quote. My bad. I was referring to post #266.

 

[Wolfhound]

Hope you're right. But a wee tiny part of me would like to see the Polish military turned on the ragtag, overextended Russkies for some 80+ year-delayed payback.

I could see Putin trying to take out whatever airfield the Ukrainians are operating from in Poland. Not with troops but maybe airpower or cruise missiles. Would definitely heat things up even more.

 

[Wolfhound]

Ooops, I didn't attach the quote. My bad. I was referring to post #266.

Oh, then disregard my comment then. Hah

 

[BugI02]

I'm getting so tired of people acting like somehow not arriving at the same tribal consensus means they're a KGB agent.

Let me see if I can break it down into sufficiently small bites for you

The reaction he got from me was because he was telling me Russia is a good country with bad leaders but that the US was a bad country with bad leaders

That did not pass the smell test. No different from the usual leftist revisionist history drivel

 

[ljk]

Well there’s this

In a historic moment, the West cannot look away from Ukraine

The United States has legal, moral, humanitarian, and practical reasons to support Ukraine’s territorial integrity by any means possible. Those means include sanctions, but the West should also consider other measures, including NATO support for an enclave in Western Ukraine controlled by...

thebulletin.org

The Budapest Memorandum and U.S. Obligations | Brookings

On the twentieth anniversary of the signing of the Budapest Memorandum, Steven Pifer, one of the negotiators of that document, writes that it is time for the Unites States to make good on the security assurances it made to Ukraine. Doing so could prevent future nuclear proliferation.

www.brookings.edu

Memorandum doesn't carry and weight, it simply agrees the the U.S. won't be on the side of Russia if Russia invades Ukraine.

Why not let them the Europeans sort it out without us because nothing good will come out of it for us.

 

[BugI02]

How about Satan? That one took the cake imo.

I guess I should not be surprised that with your background you are not more familiar with The Word. The reference is not calling you Satan, it was quoting Jesus telling Satan he could not be tempted

I was telling you the same thing vis a vis believing your propaganda

 

[BugI02]

I don't think Russia is dumb enough to invade a NATO nation.

Fears of Ukraine joining NATO have something to do with the current conflict.

So every sovereign nation that acts in ways Russia disagrees with must be canceled?