Because Michael Mann has a thing for failure / Mozambique drills in his shows and movies .If speed was important in this drama why the wasted time on the double tap? Perhaps to earn the TShirt “I shoot dead people” ?
Because Michael Mann has a thing for failure / Mozambique drills in his shows and movies .If speed was important in this drama why the wasted time on the double tap? Perhaps to earn the TShirt “I shoot dead people” ?
Not me.So we are advocating not putting two or more shots on threats?
So we are advocating not putting two or more shots on threats?
Not me.
Perhaps 3 or 4, pause, check for a pulse, then go on to the next perp?Strangely, I gathered that you weren't...
Perhaps 3 or 4, pause, check for a pulse, then go on to the next perp?
Does it really matter? One shot kills only happen in movies and on TV. You keep shooting until there is no threat. Are you shooting once then waiting for the perp to respond? I'm
Not necessarily. Some of us are referring that there needs to be a balance of reasonable speed while being able to make the hits while assessing the need AND legal muster (AKA were you justified) for the additional shots.So we are advocating not putting two or more shots on threats?
Not necessarily. Some of us are referring that there needs to be a balance of reasonable speed while being able to make the hits while assessing the need AND legal muster (AKA were you justified) for the additional shots.
Just because there is a scenario where someone wasn’t charged when they (LTCH in town or homeowner) shot someone doesn’t always mean they were technically legal. Several times it come down to the decision of the Prosecutor. Same scenario could shake out totally different in 2 separate counties!
BW, I can only speak on what I have tried to articulate. Since I mentioned Legalities let me just expand on it. People get way to wrapped up about getting their split times down. Shooting 6 times a second (if you even hit the target in a vital area at that speed) is not going to be any more effective. And it will look a lot worse on your end (think Optics) than that LAPD SWAT’s 1/2 second standard per shot I mentioned (and they make solid stopping hits)So one of you says to pause in the middle of the gunfight to check the threat's pulse and another says pause to assess legalities?
My instruction has always been to stop shooting when the threat is no longer a threat.
BW, I can only speak on what I have tried to articulate. Since I mentioned Legalities let me just expand on it. People get way to wrapped up about getting their split times down. Shooting 6 times a second (if you even hit the target in a vital area at that speed) is not going to be any more effective. And it will look a lot worse on your end (think Optics) than that LAPD SWAT’s 1/2 second standard per shot I mentioned (and they make solid stopping hits)
Assessing is not really pausing it’s just slowing down enough to properly react over what real time info you have to work with so one isn’t going full John Wick.
You are gonna be held accountable more than one can fathom for EVERY round you fire. There have been many many cases where the first 2 or 3 shots weren’t the problem. The problem was they couldn’t answer for (or the Prosecutor decided to charge them) for the additional rounds where they wouldn’t have shot if 1. They were accurate with 1 or 2 rounds.
Had those cases done the 1/2 second standard, the threat would be addressed more effectively without firing 15 rounds for only 8 hits.
Outside the competition realm too fast can be a bad thing. But Fast and cyclic are not the same.So you are assuming that fast means inaccurate?
I am not sure if I gave that impression. If I did, absolutely not. We shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. I am saying your vision needs to be wide and your shooting needs to be under control in the real world. We humans take about a quarter of a second to react. If you are shooting a bill drill on a person using .15 splits it makes it hard to react to changing tactical environs. This is often seen when officers shoot justifiably but by the time they are done they are now shooting the bad guy in the back. Now you and I know how this happens and don't see it as a problem, but a jury may. Not that I am overly concerned about juries when fighting for my life, but still, avoid problems if you can.So we are advocating not putting two or more shots on threats?
...In a defensive use as I mentioned you don’t get a 5 min walk through or you know where each target is AND you have to shoot a minimum of 2.
On the competition side I’ve seen folks go way to fast at that magic .15 and have a Mike on an IDPA or USPSA target at less than 7 yards. I’ve seen the same stage folks that have the .50-.75 Not have a Mike...
I’m not assuming it’s just a fact that “most” people get into that zone it can be a hard shift if they change gears.You are assuming that a competition shooter won't know that there isn't a five minute walk through in a SD situation or that they aren't responsible for all of the rounds fired on the street?
I am not sure if I gave that impression. If I did, absolutely not. We shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. I am saying your vision needs to be wide and your shooting needs to be under control in the real world. We humans take about a quarter of a second to react. If you are shooting a bill drill on a person using .15 splits it makes it hard to react to changing tactical environs. This is often seen when officers shoot justifiably but by the time they are done they are now shooting the bad guy in the back. Now you and I know how this happens and don't see it as a problem, but a jury may. Not that I am overly concerned about juries when fighting for my life, but still, avoid problems if you can.
Also, as TJ alluded to, considerations for more than one threat have to be taken into account. Of course that is a good argument for not carrying a low capacity gun, but if you do, your training should reflect that. Unfortunately, low capacity guns are also usually smaller which means harder to shoot so when you actually need more accuracy because misses are time, you are giving yourself a harder time. But I am getting off track.
You are correct. I just hope no new shooters are reading this garbage.The Bill Drill is all about the speed you can do it in. It hones your close range fundamentals because to be consistent, they all need to be right. El Presidente is a similar skill building drill.
Maybe it's just me and I'm dead wrong? I don't think that because I have shot these drills in competition that I'm ruined to self defense carry? Maybe I'm wrong? Could be that I'll do the mandatory mag change between threats?