Current State of Shooting Sports

[Hawkeye7br]

Though I may run out and have to retire from shooting and find another sport, I do have a plan if prices dip for awhile.

I am going to figure out how much I need for the number of years I think I will be interested in shooting and I will stock up accordingly.

Then I can shoot through all the times of famine, general price increases, etc.. I will have everything I need to shoot until I am done shooting...forever.

And if I have anything left over, my son can have it.

Perhaps you should try the 22 Long Range rifle matches at Riley. $15 entry fee and another $12-15 for 75 rounds of quality ammo will last 4 hours. We had 30 entries today. Most guys will loan their rifle to newbies if you pay them for the ammo. Practice cost less, some of us like the solitude.

 

[gregkl]

Perhaps you should try the 22 Long Range rifle matches at Riley. $15 entry fee and another $12-15 for 75 rounds of quality ammo will last 4 hours. We had 30 entries today. Most guys will loan their rifle to newbies if you pay them for the ammo. Practice cost less, some of us like the solitude.

What is considered long range? For me it's 50 yards, lol. I have driven past you guys when I was there for other events. I may check it out.

 

[longbeard]

But under the circumstances, why not score it? As long as you dont have me with my 22/45 competing against you and your 10mm, what's it matter? What's wrong with a bunch of guys using 22s competing against each other and nobody else?

I mean, USPSA is the ultimate gamer shooting sport, so why not let somebody game running a rimfire? Who is it hurting?

I think that it's often forgotten by all of us that we are in fact buying a product. Be it scsa, uspsa, or idpa, you are purchasing their rules and scoring system so you can have competitive equity. There are outlaw matches where rules are flexible and accommodating. Tim's in Westfield comes to mind. Friday Night Steel in MCFG. These matches have a loose rule set and are tons of fun. However, the competitive equity is low. It's just for fun, but if you feel "screwed" by the lack of a rule or adherence to some consistency, you need to move to a more organized sport. Enter USPSA, IDPA, SCSA, Rimfire Falling Steel.

So... back to USPA.... Scoring 22lr hurts no-one. You can see your scores in the kindle and have fun with your friends and compete with them if you so choose. However, there are no rules or divisions (i.e. open, limited, rifle?) in place for sub minor. For instance, if you can't knock down a popper to activate the swinger you're taking penalties. If you're good with that, go for it. Pay your fee, take your penalties and have a great time. However, go in understanding you're not playing for scores because the game isn't designed for your caliber. In fact, the caliber has some mechanical obstacles that cannot be overcome. I'm also sure the long range rifle guys will also let you shoot your 9mm PCC at their match if you want to pay them.

A: It's hurting people who want to see their name at the top of the Practiscore list.

Yes, there is definitely a conspiracy happening to keep 22lr out of USPSA so that the PCC guys won't rob open shooters of HOA anymore. Let's be real. If 22lr were in the game, the average casual competitor still wouldn't stand a chance of being at the top of the standings.

 

[downrange72]

I think that it's often forgotten by all of us that we are in fact buying a product. Be it scsa, uspsa, or idpa, you are purchasing their rules and scoring system so you can have competitive equity. There are outlaw matches where rules are flexible and accommodating. Tim's in Westfield comes to mind. Friday Night Steel in MCFG. These matches have a loose rule set and are tons of fun. However, the competitive equity is low. It's just for fun, but if you feel "screwed" by the lack of a rule or adherence to some consistency, you need to move to a more organized sport. Enter USPSA, IDPA, SCSA, Rimfire Falling Steel.

So... back to USPA.... Scoring 22lr hurts no-one. You can see your scores in the kindle and have fun with your friends and compete with them if you so choose. However, there are no rules or divisions (i.e. open, limited, rifle?) in place for sub minor. For instance, if you can't knock down a popper to activate the swinger you're taking penalties. If you're good with that, go for it. Pay your fee, take your penalties and have a great time. However, go in understanding you're not playing for scores because the game isn't designed for your caliber. In fact, the caliber has some mechanical obstacles that cannot be overcome. I'm also sure the long range rifle guys will also let you shoot your 9mm PCC at their match if you want to pay them.


Yes, there is definitely a conspiracy happening to keep 22lr out of USPSA so that the PCC guys won't rob open shooters of HOA anymore. Let's be real. If 22lr were in the game, the average casual competitor still wouldn't stand a chance of being at the top of the standings.

I believe .22LR is being looked at for USPSA. I'd have to back and check board meeting minutes

Or leave it up for someone else that may want too

Match attendance is down for a lot of bigger matches. Some are still drawing. KY section appeared to have decent attendance. IL section appears to have decent anticipated attendance. Buckeye Blast, it usually sells out but attendance was down this year but still had enough for a 3 day format.

Michigan section has been dropped to a 2 day format. Indiana Section is struggling to fill squads. Last years section match was down as well. So much so, we embedded ROs with shooters (not enough staff, not enough shooters) Indiana steel challenge is wide open and that is kind of unusual since there seems to be a lot more regular Steel shooters.

Personally, I'm shooting and working more than I had in previous years. As I'm typing this, this is only the 2nd weekend where I wasn't shooting something, somewhere since March (technically I'm shooting low light tomorrow at Parabellum but that's a 25 minute drive)

I've been volunteering since 2010 and frankly it's getting to the point where I don't feel it's worth it on a local level anymore. This year, 4 weeks of PTO and Personal Days will be spent around working and shooting matches. Zero days for an actual vacation of rest and relaxation (making up for some of that this weekend)

There is very little new help showing up at set up for local matches that I see. There needs to be an infusion of new blood to start helping with these matches. If the "old guard" quits, the action pistol sports are gone.

Lots of rambling, but there is a sense of urgency to keep these the shooting sports going.

Spending 3 hours of the match morning setting up 6 stage, 180 round match isn't quite worth it anymore. Places have tried lower round counts, but I'm not sure that is helping attendance either.

 

[2-Alpha]

For me personally I'm shooting fewer matches than in the past, and mainly going to the lower round count ones, because I don't want to use up ammo I can't replace easily or at a reasonable price. And I've been doing more .22 matches, or shooting .22 instead of 9mm at matches that allow it, because I have a LOT more .22 on hand than anything else.

I think part of the problem with lower attendance is match saturation. I only get to a couple of matches a month because of being busy with family activities, but between the 8 ranges I've been to matches at in the last few years there's something almost every weekend, and usually more than one match. Sometimes even the same sport at different ranges on the same day.

I think the other main thing keeping people away is the ammo situation. Lots of newer shooters buy one box of ammo at a time, and don't have a shelf full. With a 2 box limit at most places--or nothing on the shelf--coming to a match that takes 3 boxes to shoot is a big ask. 2 years ago a 120-round match was $50 ($20 entry, $30 for 3 boxes of 9mm). Now that's $140 ($20 entry, 3x$40 for 9mm). That's hard to justify for a lot of people.

I've had 5 people express interest in shooting matches when I've told them about one that I went to. One of them came and watched and I think decided it was beyond his abilities. (What was that Coach said, about not wanting to suck in public...) One insists he needs to buy a new gun first. The other three came to one of Coach's "Intro to USPSA" classes, but only one of them has actually come to a match. He was an avid shooter, just not familiar with the matches. I'm pretty sure the others have not made a match because they don't have enough ammo for one.

.22LR is only a partial fix. Several people I've talked to have also said they have a lot more .22 than 9mm. But none of the 5 shooters I mentioned above have a .22 handgun they could use for a USPSA/IDPA-type match. I'm getting into new .22 sports like NRL22 and the .22 Long Range matches, but none of those 5 shooters have a gun appropriate for either of those either. I might get one of them to a Rimfire Falling Steel match, but as a rifle shooter.

 

[Dean C.]

Expense is a huge one IMHO, I like to equate shooting to golf. Both are very expensive in terms of "initial cost" IE the guns and all other nessesities / golf clubs bags and whatnot. Then green fees / range rental , membership and continued ammo costs.

If you want to shoot USPSA it's basically a $1,000 cost of entry IMHO. I have several friends my age I have taken shooting ,they all enjoyed it but always fall back on the "it's too expensive" bit.

Then factor in the current crazyness and to shoot a match is $75 worth of 9mm minimum (because not everyone reloads). Hell I have even offered a friend of mine my complete single stack rig (including pistol) and he still did not want to shoot competition.

Heck even I have been shooting less, in 2020 I shot twice at Tim's outlaw match. Compared to 10 full blown USPSA shoots in 2019.

Plus it's a big time commitment , 4-5 hours of sitting around pasting targets for about 120 seconds total of trigger time.

 

[jakemartens]

22 is not being considered for USPSA as far adding to the current match.

Creating a steel challenge meets USPSA shooting sport with its own ruleset, classification system etc is being considered.

Greg is correct in his response as far subminor in current match. It isn’t something that is encouraged because of the problems is creates. Steel falling for one, activated targets, guns must be holstered, mags from pockets or pouches etc.

Ammo is coming back, I stopped at two different Cabela’s on the way to Michigan, the one in Dundee was fully stocked. Prices were down, .40-49 cents a round. Not great, but I have seen online more in the .40 cents a round of name brand brass cases available as well.

There has been about a 20% decrease in activity from 2019 to this year so far.

Like any hobby interest will come and go, people make decisions based on many things, cost right now seems to be the deciding factor in most cases.

 

[Grelber]

Ammo is coming back, I stopped at two different Cabela’s on the way to Michigan, the one in Dundee was fully stocked. Prices were down, .40-49 cents a round. Not great, but I have seen online more in the .40 cents a round of name brand brass cases available as well.

Good sign but I'm not sure that matters, how many would shoot USPSA if they had to pay for new ammo even at 2019 prices? Agree that it will be great if we see both ammo and reloading components come back at reasonable prices, and that happens before too many clubs drop out.

 

[gregkl]

The last few posts contained a lot of my thoughts. I'm not going to multi-quote but I will add some comments based on being new to the action type sports. Not new as in exposure, new as in stepping up to the line.

1. Yes, I don't want to suck in public but I'm overcoming that. My experience as a spectator is that it appears that new competitors have a pretty good level of proficiency when they decided to shoot matches. Unlike me who is still trying to figure out how to shoot the darn gun.

2. Cost and time. One of the reasons I never took up golf was the expense and time commitment. Match attendance seems to provide the same issues. Spend 3/4 of a day mostly standing around for a few minutes of shooting is something I need to get over. I go to my local range, run some drills, shoot 150 rounds or so of ammo and am back home by 10 AM ready to tackle the rest of my day. I need to realize its the social aspect that I need to embrace. Cost won't be as much of an issue if the prices will come back down at least for a couple years. I have learned my lesson. I really think if the prices get better, I can stock up enough components to shoot for as many years as I want, unless I start shooting more.

3. New blood. There are a lot of activities that need new blood. That's going to be tough. I'd say, be sure you are welcoming them, helping them to have a good time. If people are squadding up in their clique and the new person feels like an outsider there is a good chance they won't be back. Heck, why go to a match to be basically ignored. I can do that on my own.

I guess I'm not willing to travel like some of you folks but I don't see much opportunity to shoot certain matches. Most clubs seem to have one match of a certain type per month. I have two, maybe three ranges within striking distance so I am not seeing the opportunities unless I want to shoot varied events but I am focused on learning the pistol. Plus, I don't have the equipment. That long range .22 at Riley sounds interesting, but will it be laughable to show up with a slightly modified 10/22? IDK. I'm imaging a lot of high end custom rifles with all the bells and whistles.

If/when I sign up for a USPSA match, I'll be happy to come early and help set up. Why not? I'm already committing my day, a couple hours earlier won't matter to me. I'm a morning person anyways.

DR72, you seem like a very personable and competent guy. Hate to see folks like you pull back from providing your abilities, but I understand that balance is important. You and the other guys that work the conceal carry match are the reason I'm considering trying a USPSA match. Without those matches, I wouldn't have given it much thought. I just wish you could sign up for a time slot for USPSA like the CC matches, lol.

And last, I think pistol sports have a better chance then, say, Trap. I used to shoot Trap and really liked it. But that is definitely filled with the "old guard".

One thing that could help me is to be signed up on email notices from clubs announcing upcoming matches. I miss them on INGO a lot. Currently I go to the sites and check the calendars. I have missed more matches than not. Do the various clubs offer this? If not, they should. Everything in life requires some promotion to be successful.

 

[gregkl]

Good sign but I'm not sure that matters, how many would shoot USPSA if they had to pay for new ammo even at 2019 prices? Agree that it will be great if we see both ammo and reloading components come back at reasonable prices, and that happens before too many clubs drop out.

I will shoot if I can reload for about $0.12/round as many rounds as you want to have at a match. My ceiling for factory rounds is around $0.35/round but I prefer to shoot my mouse fart reloads.

Right now I have enough components to finish out this year at $0.11-0.13/round. It's next year I'm concerned with.

But if I have to shoot factory at the above prices, I would still do it. That would be roughly $50 in ammo plus match fees. It's doable at the frequency I would be shooting matches while I am still working. Once I retire, I will need to have everything I need other than match fees to continue. And even then, I'll try to do something to help to get the match fees waived.

 

[marvin02]

One thing that could help me is to be signed up on email notices from clubs announcing upcoming matches. I miss them on INGO a lot. Currently I go to the sites and check the calendars. I have missed more matches than not. Do the various clubs offer this? If not, they should. Everything in life requires some promotion to be successful.

You need a Practiscore account. Many matches are listed there and you can follow clubs that you would be willing to travel to, then use the finds events function to get a list of what's coming up from all of the clubs you follow at once.

I've shot three matches last month, and have shot two already this month, with one more scheduled. Most of the matches I shoot are steel of some type, Steel Challenge, Rimfire Challenge, or Rimfire Falling Steel, with a USPSA mtach once in a while. Usually shoot two or more guns.

One of the ironic things about timed shooting competitions is that the better you are the less time you spend actually shooting. The winner of the Rimfire Challenge at Michigan City yesterday had a total time of less than 81 seconds (four stages each with .22 pistpl and rifle). The steel challenge (6 stages) winner last month at Bristol had a total time of less than 47 seconds, last place was just over 194 seconds. You are going to stand around more than you shoot at most competitions.

 

[gregkl]

You need a Practiscore account. Many matches are listed there and you can follow clubs that you would be willing to travel to, then use the finds events function to get a list of what's coming up from all of the clubs you follow at once.

I've shot three matches last month, and have shot two already this month, with one more scheduled. Most of the matches I shoot are steel of some type, Steel Challenge, Rimfire Challenge, or Rimfire Falling Steel, with a USPSA mtach once in a while. Usually shoot two or more guns.

One of the ironic things about timed shooting competitions is that the better you are the less time you spend actually shooting. The winner of the Rimfire Challenge at Michigan City yesterday had a total time of less than 81 seconds (four stages each with .22 pistpl and rifle). The steel challenge (6 stages) winner last month at Bristol had a total time of less than 47 seconds, last place was just over 194 seconds. You are going to stand around more than you shoot at most competitions.

I have an account. I'll go and find out how I follow clubs to be sure I'm getting notifications. Thanks!

 

[NHT3]

I enjoy but have never been been big into USPSA or IDPA. I've been shooting the Action pistol match at Tim's. Set up a TX22 with an optic on it and enjoying the crap out of it. (Surpriningly the steel poppers they have work very well with the 22). It's great practice for defending myself and I could care less about where I, or anyone else ends up on the Practicescore list. I know when I leave if I feel I've shot well and that's what makes me happy. Gun handles identically to the G19 that I carry so I'm building muscle memory for defending myself which has always been my goal. Making it more inclusive to encourage new shooters might the the answer to the problem. If you're only in it for the game I understand exclusion of 22s but I thought USPSA and IDPA were for honing self defense skills, silly me.

 

[kingnereli]

Lowering the round count for matches seems to help participation, but that puts more stress on match directors to invent interesting, challenging stages that require less ammo. I don't envy them.

 

[jakemartens]

Good sign but I'm not sure that matters, how many would shoot USPSA if they had to pay for new ammo even at 2019 prices? Agree that it will be great if we see both ammo and reloading components come back at reasonable prices, and that happens before too many clubs drop out.

If we were to repeat 2019 the report is attached, which was the best year in the history of USPSA as far as total matches, total clubs, and total membership, it would be very good.
Needless to say 2020 and 2021 have impacted every aspect of everyones lives, hell I can't get a cinnamon dolce latte at starbucks because the world is out of cinnamon dolce syrup. Jan/Feb/March of 2020 was on a 15% increase of activity and membership as far as USPSA/SCSA goes. Then pandemic, civil unrest..etc etc.
People take stock in what is important to them, they make decisions, they stop doing things.

At the end of December 2015 there was approx 24k USPSA Members, about 400 clubs and around 100 Steel Challenge Clubs. That was after 8 years of record guns sales and ammo shortages and component shortages. High gas prices, collapsed housing markets, high taxes etc.

New gun sales do not equal new shooters, not when bought under the “buy it because I might not be able political threat” or “buy for protection, civil unrest” we saw last year. Some might decide to try it, some might get hooked, some might see it as exciting, but excessive with regards to time and money. In the 21 years I have been competing and involved I have seen lots of people come and go. Same as with every lifestyle hobby and sport.

Growth in shooting sports, hunting, gun sales, and all types of other hobbies go up with good economies and go down with bad ones. USPSA has been around as an organization since 1984, and IPSC was started in 1976'ish. The ups and downs are nothing new. The political climate is nothing new, the rise in pricing, lack of components is nothing new.

What is new, people thinking that there needs to be immediate change, immediate response, immediate "make it better for me" actions without thinking about unintended consequences. This is a lifestyle sport and a hobby. There is a time commitment, there is a financial commitment, and there is a certain level of involvement in participating. That can be as simple as knowing where to find a club (uspsa.org, scsa.org, idpa.com), reviewing the rules, knowing how to sign up, having a minimum expectation of what will take place at a match. This can then be all the way up to designing, setting up stages, becoming a RO, running matches, practicing and even training others, traveling to big matches and even having others in your family shooting.

As far as USPSA goes we have lots of analytical tools that tell me how often a member a shoots, how soon a new member goes to a match, the average distance they travel to their matches, how long between matches and other “life cycle” of a member reports to review.
I don’t have a “why don’t you shoot anymore” report. We are in the process of working out surveying stuff, but it takes time to develop that because you can ask questions on surveys to get the answers you want.
Some might have just stopped because they don’t like shooting with Jeff.

 

[downrange72]

If we were to repeat 2019 the report is attached, which was the best year in the history of USPSA as far as total matches, total clubs, and total membership, it would be very good.
Needless to say 2020 and 2021 have impacted every aspect of everyones lives, hell I can't get a cinnamon dolce latte at starbucks because the world is out of cinnamon dolce syrup. Jan/Feb/March of 2020 was on a 15% increase of activity and membership as far as USPSA/SCSA goes. Then pandemic, civil unrest..etc etc.
People take stock in what is important to them, they make decisions, they stop doing things.

At the end of December 2015 there was approx 24k USPSA Members, about 400 clubs and around 100 Steel Challenge Clubs. That was after 8 years of record guns sales and ammo shortages and component shortages. High gas prices, collapsed housing markets, high taxes etc.

New gun sales do not equal new shooters, not when bought under the “buy it because I might not be able political threat” or “buy for protection, civil unrest” we saw last year. Some might decide to try it, some might get hooked, some might see it as exciting, but excessive with regards to time and money. In the 21 years I have been competing and involved I have seen lots of people come and go. Same as with every lifestyle hobby and sport.

Growth in shooting sports, hunting, gun sales, and all types of other hobbies go up with good economies and go down with bad ones. USPSA has been around as an organization since 1984, and IPSC was started in 1976'ish. The ups and downs are nothing new. The political climate is nothing new, the rise in pricing, lack of components is nothing new.

What is new, people thinking that there needs to be immediate change, immediate response, immediate "make it better for me" actions without thinking about unintended consequences. This is a lifestyle sport and a hobby. There is a time commitment, there is a financial commitment, and there is a certain level of involvement in participating. That can be as simple as knowing where to find a club (uspsa.org, scsa.org, idpa.com), reviewing the rules, knowing how to sign up, having a minimum expectation of what will take place at a match. This can then be all the way up to designing, setting up stages, becoming a RO, running matches, practicing and even training others, traveling to big matches and even having others in your family shooting.

As far as USPSA goes we have lots of analytical tools that tell me how often a member a shoots, how soon a new member goes to a match, the average distance they travel to their matches, how long between matches and other “life cycle” of a member reports to review.
I don’t have a “why don’t you shoot anymore” report. We are in the process of working out surveying stuff, but it takes time to develop that because you can ask questions on surveys to get the answers you want.
Some might have just stopped because they don’t like shooting with Jeff.

Liked because I don't like shooting with Jeff's.

 

[Grelber]

Some might have just stopped because they don’t like shooting with Jeff.

I think that might be more of a local club phenomenon.

 

[2-Alpha]

If you want to shoot USPSA it's basically a $1,000 cost of entry IMHO.

I disagree. The “prospective new shooter” in my mind already has a suitable 9mm and the 2 mags it came with. For SCSA they’d just need a couple more mags. For USPSA/IDPA also a mag carrier and holster if they don’t already have one. So <$200.

 

[Dean C.]

I disagree. The “prospective new shooter” in my mind already has a suitable 9mm and the 2 mags it came with. For SCSA they’d just need a couple more mags. For USPSA/IDPA also a mag carrier and holster if they don’t already have one. So <$200.

I was more referring to "everything needed" including firearm, mags, ears/eyes, ammo, cleaning supplies, holster and mag carrier.

 

[55fairlane]

I practice every Thursday afternoon by shooting an 80 round across the course and I go to at least 1 match a month (NRA or CMP) that like 3000 rounds right there, thank goodness I hand load and bought up components last year , .....this years rimfire sporter at the National Matches are gonna cost the same as my first High Power Match cost me 7 years ago, ouch!