Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man part II

[SheepDog4Life]

Body cam was released. Officer thought she had her Taser out instead of her handgun. She was wrong. Definitely a bad shoot and she will be in trouble.

Several news reports echoed that this was an "accidental" shooting.

I disagree, the shooting was due to negligence, by definition:

failure to exercise the care that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in like circumstances

 

[rooster]

Several news reports echoed that this was an "accidental" shooting.

I disagree, the shooting was due to negligence, by definition:

Seems the negligence doesn’t just lie with the officer on scene. Young man had an arrest warrant because his summons was sent to the wrong address and returned.

 

[cobber]

And here's an interesting turn of events in Brooklyn Center:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/12/brookly-center-mayor-police-control/

An hour later, Elliott announced that Brooklyn Center had fired its city manager, Curt Boganey, and replaced him with the city’s deputy manager, Reggie Edwards.

“I will continue to work my hardest to ensure good leadership at all levels of our city government,” Elliott said in a tweet about the change.
Earlier that day, Elliott and Boganey publicly split over the discipline of the officer involved, who was identified as Kim Potter, a 26-year veteran of the Brooklyn Center Police Department. Authorities said Potter accidentally fired her gun at Wright when she meant to use a Taser.

“All employees working for the city of Brooklyn Center are entitled to due process with respect to discipline,” Boganey told reporters. “This employee will receive due process, and that’s really all I can say today.”
Elliott, meanwhile, said the officer should be dismissed.
“Let me be very clear: My position is that we cannot afford to make mistakes that lead to the loss of life of other people in our profession,” he said at a news conference. “So I do fully support releasing the officer of her duties.”

 

[Leadeye]

And here's an interesting turn of events in Brooklyn Center:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/12/brookly-center-mayor-police-control/

I'll have to assume the leadership of that town has more info than has been released, on the surface that looks like an political/emotional decision.

 

[Expat]

I don't want to minimize some of these, people are dead. But, I think it is important to not forget that a decision was made to resist police. Once that occurs, bad **** can happen.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I don't want to minimize some of these, people are dead. But, I think it is important to not forget that a decision was made to resist police. Once that occurs, bad **** can happen.

And yet, people keep doing it, and acting surprised when it does.

 

[jamil]

Sorry, but that's not how it works in our system of criminal and civil law. The defendant must "take their victim as they find them." IANAL

Eggshell skull - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yesterday was not a good day for the defense, but the expert witness blew the “eggshell” theory out the window. So if we’re to believe the expert witness in everything he can’t have it both ways. He said that neither drugs nor heart disease played any role in Floyd’s death, that it was all the restraint and the time held.

So now we’re left with a 5’didley 140lb man killing a much taller, heavier man, with a muscular build, just by kneeling behind his neck. I think it’s reasonable to believe that with the drugs and heart disease, that could be possible. Without? The eggshell theory is off the table. Or. The expert witness liked the sound of his own smug voice a little too much. He overplayed it.

 

[jamil]

I don't want to minimize some of these, people are dead. But, I think it is important to not forget that a decision was made to resist police. Once that occurs, bad **** can happen.

It’s not a justification, but it is a fact. Have zero encounters with police and your chances of dying by police are extraordinarily low. I mean, you have the occasional no-knock raid on the wrong house. But if you have an encounter with police AND you try to run away, odds that you might die understandably go way up.

 

[jamil]

Stuff like that is so hard for me to wrap my head around. It's indicative of someone not in control, a panic attack. Young officers that haven't seen much, yeah it happens, but there normally comes a point where things shouldn't be that difficult.

It seemed like lack of training to me. If she regularly practiced drawing both, I can’t imagine not noticing something different. I’ve never drew a taser, but I’ve practiced drawing with a glock (shhhh. don’t tell anyone I actually touched one). It felt noticeably different from drawing my EDC. Different weight, different balance. Different feel.

Is a taser’s weight and feel really that similar?

 

[jamil]

So if a mob boss made it clear that if a jury convicted his son there would be serious reprisals to the public wouldn't that be an intimidation crime?

How are the pronouncements of celebrities and politicians on this trial different?

It should be considered intimidation. I don’t know how you have a fair trial in that kind of environment.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It seemed like lack of training to me. If she regularly practiced drawing both, I can’t imagine not noticing something different. I’ve never drew a taser, but I’ve practiced drawing with a glock (shhhh. don’t tell anyone I actually touched one). It felt noticeably different from drawing my EDC. Different weight, different balance. Different feel.

Is a taser’s weight and feel really that similar?

No, a taser is relatively light, and while there is a trigger, it’s not quite like a handgun trigger... AND the taser (in most of not all) is at a cross draw position.
My thoughts, after finding out the LEO was a 26 year veteran, is that she probably was at some point a decent road officer, got some time in, and bounced around the non-road divisions, admin chanced, and her comfortable training/CID job went to a upcoming star, and she had to go back to the road, trying to reach the magic 30. She’s not retrained to how things are now, and just wasn’t prepared for the stress. There are plenty of guys/gals like that. They know a lot of stuff, just out of practice.

 

[jamil]

I have a problem with allowing de facto second-class citizenship. Once this camel has its nose under the tent, it is a problem, and we are already there. We started with felons. Then it was expanded to include some misdemeanors. Next, arms will be prohibited for all misdemeanors. Following that will be infractions. By this time, rights will be available only to the chosen few.

I will stand by the notion that anyone who csnnot be allowed all his rights should not be roaming free, and that no free citizen should have truncated rights.

This is probably a discussion for another thread, but I don’t fully agree with the either all or nothing part. Maximum freedom would be out of jail but restricted as appropriate. But whatever the restrictions there should be a die process and a way to have restrictions legally removed. For example a person robs a store and pistol whips and rapes the attendant. Is caught and convicted and serves her time. All rights should be restored. But, a judge should be able to set conditions for release. Like no firearms. Caught with a firearm. Back to jail. And the person can also have her day in court to request that restriction be removed. But, the difference would be, the only way a felon can’t exercise that right is if a judge orders it. No more casting wide blankets. So all rights restored once the debt to society is payed, but the court would still have the authority to restrict rights under certain circumstances.

 

[jamil]

Several news reports echoed that this was an "accidental" shooting.

I disagree, the shooting was due to negligence, by definition:

After seeing Kut’s explanation I disagree in this case. I think it was more of an issue of training/retraining. It was accidental in that she did not intend to use her firearm. But she may get charged with some kind of negligent homicide.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Seems the negligence doesn’t just lie with the officer on scene. Young man had an arrest warrant because his summons was sent to the wrong address and returned.

I guess my question would be who provided the wrong address? Would that not normally be the person cited/arrested, as Daunte was, for the weapons charge?

I could be wrong, but my initial impression is that he gave a fake address when he was tagged the first time... hence a summons would never reach him.

I don't want to minimize some of these, people are dead. But, I think it is important to not forget that a decision was made to resist police. Once that occurs, bad **** can happen.

And yet, people keep doing it, and acting surprised when it does.

This.

He had a warrant for failure to appear... the right place to sort this all out is in court, not bolting from officers in the act of putting cuffs on and attempting to speed off in your car.

It’s not a justification, but it is a fact. Have zero encounters with police and your chances of dying by police are extraordinarily low. I mean, you have the occasional no-knock raid on the wrong house. But if you have an encounter with police AND you try to run away, odds that you might die understandably go way up.

Same... live life with zero cause for police interaction... and if somehow that happens anyway, comply with all lawful orders and save the arguing/complaints for later.

And, sidenote: just saw a picture of the officer on Today... looked to be from social media... the taser on her left side was yellow.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

After seeing Kut’s explanation I disagree in this case. I think it was more of an issue of training/retraining. It was accidental in that she did not intend to use her firearm. But she may get charged with some kind of negligent homicide.

I still disagree... due care prescribes ensuring you have a taser in your hand when you intend to tase. Not doing so is negligent, not accidental.

Further, she had it extended in front of her... black gun, not yellow taser.

Heat of the moment? Sure. Inadequate training and muscle memory? Obviously. But, she still neglected to ensure she had a taser in her hands.

 

[Doug]

I always told my sons that if they were stopped by the police, the correct answers were always, "Yes, Sir; No Sir; and Whatever you say, Sir," even if it was a "hassle stop" because the cop thought you looked too young to drive (it happened).

There would be a lot less trouble if everyone watched Chris Rock's famous video and followed his advice.

 

[KittySlayer]

Heat of the moment? Sure. Inadequate training and muscle memory? Obviously. But, she still neglected to ensure she had a taser in her hands.

Maybe it was too much training and muscle memory. 26 years on the force with the initial training where she developed her muscle memory focused on her firearm (assume tazers were not standard issue across the force over two decades ago). How much subsequent training does it take to replace the initial muscle memory you developed to use your firearm when things go sideways?

 

[churchmouse]

And yet, people keep doing it, and acting surprised when it does.

No this is a path to stardom. And a pay day.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

No this is a path to stardom. And a pay day.

For his survivors anyhow. Don't think he's going to be spending anything, unless you really can take it with you when you go.

 

[dudley0]

No this is a path to stardom. And a pay day.

Almost like playing a macabre version of the lotto. Slight chance you get killed, higher chance you get your 15 minutes and maybe a little higher chance of a payday.