To Mask or Not to Mask?

[Kdf101]

Meh, I will risk it without a mask. I’m just not concerned enough about this, I think it is way overblown. Serious yes, but not mankind ending let’s kill the world economy bad. I have no problem with people wearing masks voluntarily, or even private businesses requiring them if that is what they want to do. What I have a problem with is people who ARE afraid of it wanting me to wear one so they don’t get sick, because I MIGHT be a carrier with no symptoms.

 

[CampingJosh]

So this is where you get your info.....

I don't watch TV news, and I hadn't seen that particular interview before tonight. I just knew that the information from the start had been to leave medical masks (especially N95 masks) for medical personnels in order to avoid shortages.

This clip was just the first search result that gave a succinct refutation of the talking point that guidance on masks has been changing wildly.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't watch TV news, and I hadn't seen that particular interview before tonight. I just knew that the information from the start had been to leave medical masks (especially N95 masks) for medical personnels in order to avoid shortages.

This clip was just the first search result that gave a succinct refutation of the talking point that guidance on masks has been changing wildly.

Should have used purple.

Seriously....the info has been in flux since the beginning. To the point we no longer hear it along with the rest of the white noise but that is just us. JMHO based on personal experience and what I have seen with my own eyes.

I should probably stop posting in this thread myself. My opinions are not popular ones but the self appointed experts drive me BatPoo crazy.

You all have a great night.

 

[CampingJosh]

Should have used purple.

Fair. I'm too tired to catch anything even sort of subtle tonight.

It was a hot day to spend with a chainsaw (wearing the appropriate PPE: jeans, boots, chaps, long sleeves, gloves, and earmuffs), but that's what I did. I'm only about 1/3 of the way done, though, so I am going to start at dawn tomorrow and try to quit shortly after noon.

 

[BugI02]

I don't watch TV news, and I hadn't seen that particular interview before tonight. I just knew that the information from the start had been to leave medical masks (especially N95 masks) for medical personnels in order to avoid shortages.

This clip was just the first search result that gave a succinct refutation of the talking point that guidance on masks has been changing wildly.

Dr Fauci 1.0 being interviewed about two weeks before your 60 minutes piece. Whoops

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands

•Masks. The only people who need masks are those who are already infected to keep from exposing others. The masks sold at drugstores aren't even good enough to truly protect anyone, Fauci said.

"If you look at the masks that you buy in a drug store, the leakage around that doesn't really do much to protect you," he said. "People start saying, 'Should I start wearing a mask?' Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask."

Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule."[Note that that is a direct quote] But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave

 

[CampingJosh]

Dr Fauci 1.0 being interviewed about two weeks before your 60 minutes piece. Whoops

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands

So late February?

If we were in the same situation now as we were in late February (i.e. super low infection rate), I think he would offer that same advice.

 

[jamil]

Well I apologize for my mannerisms, I type how I speak, it's just an analogy.

I believe calling it a "hoax" is a bit harsh, because it definitely is a real thing, people are getting sick and dying, good for you that you and your family were able to get through it, I'm happy for you, but I believe that it could be an anecdotal issue where you and your family might have gotten a weak strand. I will cede that some deaths are flubbed, especially in NYC, hell I will advocate for an after the fact study to look into how many were falsely classified, but the fact stands that there is a risk out there and we as a people of this country need to do all we can to prevent it and help our fellow man, be they people we disagree with or our closest friends, we are all Americans and we all want what's best for the nation.

And again, I advocate for reopening, but I it seems in this age of harsh partisanship there's no place for nuance and has become and age of "you're either 100% with me, or you're against me", which is how countries fall apart.

All we can? We “can” shut everything down and order everyone to stay home. There’s a lot of things we “can” do. If you are an advocate at all for reopening then you don’t really mean that. I think the standard should be something more like taking reasonable steps to make sure you’re not putting other people at undue risk. That’s the responsible thing to do. Mutual care is a benefit to everyone. But it fails to be that as care becomes overly burdensome. There is a point at which responsibility becomes an unwarranted burden.

Is mask wearing burdensome? Well, yeah, at least a little. Obviously. Even the mask Nazis get caught with it hanging below their noses when people are in close proximity. It is that way because it’s damn hard to breathe with some masks. I wore a N95 mask during grocery trips, and that was physically difficult. I was exhausted afterwards. My dental hygienist has to wear a N95 mask and said she hates having to wear that for long periods. A cloth mask is a bit more comfortable at least. But it’s not an option for everyone.

My point is that it’s fine for you to advocate for wearing masks. For some people it’s not a choice, like the dental hygienist, or other medical professionals who must come into close contact with people. It’s not a fine line between advocacy and mask-shaming though. In your advocacy just stay well south of that line and you’ll be fine. I think you’ve gone over that line a few times here. Just don’t expect everyone to agree with you.

 

[BugI02]

And yet you are saying that the advice from medical 'professionals' on masking has not been subject to revision

Fauci 2.0 just a week after your 60 minutes cite

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preventing-coronavirus-facemask-60-minutes-2020-03-08/
March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19

When it comes to preventing coronavirus, public health officials have been clear: Healthy people do not need to wear a face mask to protect themselves from COVID-19.

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do. Wearing a mask may also have unintended consequences: People who wear masks tend to touch their face more often to adjust them, which can spread germs from their hands.

 

[KMaC]

I don't watch TV news, and I hadn't seen that particular interview before tonight. I just knew that the information from the start had been to leave medical masks (especially N95 masks) for medical personnels in order to avoid shortages.

This clip was just the first search result that gave a succinct refutation of the talking point that guidance on masks has been changing wildly.

Is this the story you were looking for?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

World Health Organization officials Monday said they still recommend people not wear face masks unless they are sick with Covid-19 or caring for someone who is sick.



Masks may actually increase your coronavirus risk if worn improperly, surgeon general warns


"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly,"

 

[jamil]

And yet you are saying that the advice from medical 'professionals' on masking has not been subject to revision

Fauci 2.0 just a week after your 60 minutes cite

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preventing-coronavirus-facemask-60-minutes-2020-03-08/
March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19

That was when we had a mask shortage. At the same time Fauci was also saying that people need to donate the masks they were hoarding to medical professionals. At the time I interpreted the whole thing as: we have a mask shortage for medical professionals. I need to say regular people don’t need them so that people will stop hoarding them. At the time I thought the lie was told then. I still think that.

 

[BugI02]

So how shall we consider their advice when they tell us hydroxychloroquine doesn't work or remdesevir does. If they're willing to lie for some perceived higher purpose, they've burnt down what credibility they had

Who's to say they aren't lying about hydroxychloroquine because they want to save it for themselves - medical professionals and all

 

[Tombs]

That was when we had a mask shortage. At the same time Fauci was also saying that people need to donate the masks they were hoarding to medical professionals. At the time I interpreted the whole thing as: we have a mask shortage for medical professionals. I need to say regular people don’t need them so that people will stop hoarding them. At the time I thought the lie was told then. I still think that.

So they were willing to sacrifice your health for fear of a shortage, and you're going to take their advice seriously, when their advice could have killed you?

 

[CampingJosh]

And yet you are saying that the advice from medical 'professionals' on masking has not been subject to revision

Fauci 2.0 just a week after your 60 minutes cite

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preventing-coronavirus-facemask-60-minutes-2020-03-08/
March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19

New information leads to new recommendations? I'm shocked.

You claimed that Fauci, in bad faith, told people not to wear masks:

What's even funnier is Fauci is now saying medical experts deliberately downplayed the efficacy of masks back then so they would be available for health professionals. So basically, he's telling you the 'health professionals' are willing to lie about best practices when it suits their purpose and they really don't seem to much care who died because of it

The video I posted is one of many examples showing that he very explicitly said months ago that medical masks were needed for medical personnel and that was one of the reasons he was recommending the general public not use them.

 

[jamil]

So how shall we consider their advice when they tell us hydroxychloroquine doesn't work or remdesevir does. If they're willing to lie for some perceived higher purpose, they've burnt down what credibility they had

Who's to say they aren't lying about hydroxychloroquine because they want to save it for themselves - medical professionals and all

Oh. I’m not arguing that point. Lying for the greater good is still deception. Fouci has demonstrated himself to be a manipulative lying **********. He can eat a bag of ****s for all I care.

 

[jamil]

So they were willing to sacrifice your health for fear of a shortage, and you're going to take their advice seriously, when their advice could have killed you?

Who says I take their advice seriously? I’m just saying what I think is real.

 

[BugI02]

I don't watch TV news, and I hadn't seen that particular interview before tonight. I just knew that the information from the start had been to leave medical masks (especially N95 masks) for medical personnels in order to avoid shortages.

This clip was just the first search result that gave a succinct refutation of the talking point that guidance on masks has been changing wildly.

That wasn't some other CampingJosh, was it?

New information leads to new recommendations? I'm shocked.

You claimed that Fauci, in bad faith, told people not to wear masks:

[Oh, he was acting in bad faith; and he was doing more than just saying they should be reserved for medical professionals, he was saying they were unnecessary and did no good. If at the same time he knows that is untrue but says it to further a hidden agenda, is that not bad faith?]

The video I posted is one of many examples showing that he very explicitly said months ago that medical masks were needed for medical personnel and that was one of the reasons he was recommending the general public not use them.

The direct quotes in the cited articles do not seem to support your supposition

 

[jamil]

New information leads to new recommendations? I'm shocked.

You claimed that Fauci, in bad faith, told people not to wear masks:



The video I posted is one of many examples showing that he very explicitly said months ago that medical masks were needed for medical personnel and that was one of the reasons he was recommending the general public not use them.

He said on one side of his mouth that the public doesn’t need masks. They’re not going to help anyone. Out if the other, medical professionals need masks. Now, if Fouci would have said, yes, masks are effective, but the risks are much higher for people treating people with covid than it is for the general public, so please don’t hoard them all so that these people can do their jobs safely, that would be honest. That’s not what he said.

 

[CampingJosh]

That wasn't some other CampingJosh, was it?

The direct quotes in the cited articles do not seem to support your supposition

I mean, I guess if you skip part of the sentence. I'll emphasize it for you.

When it comes to preventing coronavirus, public health officials have been clear: Healthy people do not need to wear a face mask to protect themselves from COVID-19.

That is still the consensus.

Masks are to be worn by the infected to protect the uninfected. And since there's a delay several day delay between becoming infected and showing symptoms, most people cannot be confident that they are not infected.

Masks don't keep the virus out; masks keep the virus in. Medical masks should be reserved for medical personnel. Those two things have been quite consistent since early March.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

So how shall we consider their advice when they tell us hydroxychloroquine doesn't work or remdesevir does. If they're willing to lie for some perceived higher purpose, they've burnt down what credibility they had

Who's to say they aren't lying about hydroxychloroquine because they want to save it for themselves - medical professionals and all

So they were willing to sacrifice your health for fear of a shortage, and you're going to take their advice seriously, when their advice could have killed you?

^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly my thoughts on “medical experts”. Lie to me once, shame on you. Lie to me twice, shame on me. They broke my trust by lying to me about not needing it in the beginning, when they could have just outright told the truth about it. People can use the cop out “well they know more now than they did then”, don’t tell me they didn’t know then how it spreads enough to know if a mask would increase or decrease infection rate. America wasn’t ground zero. This wasn’t the first month after the world got its view of it. Italy and China had already had it pretty bad. If they weren’t expert enough then to make a determination that masks were useful, then they aren’t expert enough now to tell me they are. They broke the trust by their incompetence, not me. If they truly didn’t know, they shouldn’t have said they do know and they didn’t help, cause now I’m skeptical of anything you tell me.


Trust is harder to earn than money. Can’t buy trust.

 

[jamil]

I mean, I guess if you skip part of the sentence. I'll emphasize it for you.



That is still the consensus.

Masks are to be worn by the infected to protect the uninfected. And since there's a delay several day delay between becoming infected and showing symptoms, most people cannot be confident that they are not infected.

Masks don't keep the virus out; masks keep the virus in. Medical masks should be reserved for medical personnel. Those two things have been quite consistent since early March.

Wait a minute. That sounds a lot more like you’re parsing words. The first time it was stated was to keep people from using masks. Now it’s to get people to wear them. Surely you can see the dishonesty in that.

Also, I hope you see how the sides have totally flipped. The karens then were shaming people for wearing masks because they’re unnecessary and are putting our healthcare people in danger. Now? “911, what’s your emergency?” That awful man in that <gasp> massive pickup truck with his windows up is NOT wearing a mask!!!! I demand you come and arrest him at once!

Back when fouci was saying wearing masks won’t help, I’m in Kroger and I see Bubba coming down the isle pushing a cart with gloved hands, wearing a respirator that looked a lot like a gas mask, goggles on his face, and to round out the ensemble a partially open carried Glock in what appeared to be a paddle holster. Dude looked absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it’s whatever. Point is, I’m pretty sure that guy don’t vote for Democrats. Decked out in full protective gear.

Now? If I saw him again, I’m pretty sure I’d recognize him by the paddle holstered Glock. But he’d have zero PPE.

The karens and the bubbas have flipped positions. It’s kinda funny. But it also illustrates the futility of your efforts to maintain the act that the karens were right both times.

If masks stop the spread of disease now then they would stop the spread of disease then. That would be a handy thing to have happened in NY before they had to put bodies in uhaul trucks. The case then could have been that we just needed to give medical workers priority for having masks. But that’s not how it was presented. Fouci lied to Americans to manipulate their behavior. And maybe he did it for the greater good. But make that case instead of parsing words and pretending that you and the karen squad were right both ways.