Compressor to heat pump conversion

[BobDaniels]

If there was nothing wrong with it and it wasn't keeping up than it wasn't sized correctly. Don't blame the type of system. Blame the people that charged you for the maintenance.


Technically the heat of a radiator doesn't "rise". It radiates. Google the difference between conduction, convection, and radiation.

Most people seem to love their geothermal system; our experience was less than stellar. When I mention we did not have good luck with the geothermal, the most common response is that the loop was not big enough. Your comment about it not being properly sized is most likely issue. But that is no longer our problem as we no longer own that house. As for the company we hired for maintenance, I won't be calling them any time soon.

I do understand the difference between the three and I can feel the heat radiating from the ceiling. I am certainly no Sheldon Cooper (i am a dork however) but I do understand the fundementals of physics and based on that understanding, feel that heat radiating from the floor will require less work to heat the room than heat radiating from the ceiling.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Most people seem to love their geothermal system; our experience was less than stellar. When I mention we did not have good luck with the geothermal, the most common response is that the loop was not big enough. Your comment about it not being properly sized is most likely issue. But that is no longer our problem as we no longer own that house. As for the company we hired for maintenance, I won't be calling them any time soon.

I do understand the difference between the three and I can feel the heat radiating from the ceiling. I am certainly no Sheldon Cooper (i am a dork however) but I do understand the fundementals of physics and based on that understanding, feel that heat radiating from the floor will require less work to heat the room than heat radiating from the ceiling.

Fair enough

Back to your original question. Yes it's doable for a reasonable cost compared to your current utilities. I really don't know which one I would do. Depending on how long you want to be in the house, why not do both? Heat pump with gas backup is generally accepted as the most efficient system. Yeah the upfront cost is more but if you're planning on being there for a long time you'll get back that difference. And it'll help resale if you go that direction.

 

[BobDaniels]

Fair enough

Back to your original question. Yes it's doable for a reasonable cost compared to your current utilities. I really don't know which one I would do. Depending on how long you want to be in the house, why not do both? Heat pump with gas backup is generally accepted as the most efficient system. Yeah the upfront cost is more but if you're planning on being there for a long time you'll get back that difference. And it'll help resale if you go that direction.

This is our 'rest of life' home. I'm not affraid so spend a few wise dollars on this home, but i'm a working man and can only afford so much. A hybrid system that will accomodate the given weather conditions is very attractive and worth serious consideration. There is a fireplace that needs minor work on the damper, so supplemental heat is an option for the arctic days. I want a stove insert but have not decided on fuel. (if anyone knows of a gas insert that can be converted to wood burning, i'm all ears)

My OP has lead to more questions, but I'd still like to hear about converting a compressor system to a heat pump system.

"Thank You" to all that have anwered.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

What specifically would you like to know? How exactly it works? Price and parts has already been broken down. You wanting to know utility costs old vs new?

 

[Brian Ski]

My Dad had had an open loop geothermal heat pump since I was about 12 or 13 (roughly 30 years). He likes it very much and it is very cost efficient. He lives in Southwest Michigan with ample water at a shallow depth and good drainage to a pond and drywell. It works well for him, but geothermal is kind of a big investment.

I had one also... About 25 years ago. Open loop... Was not that impressed... Did work well... Was fairly noisy...The cost to install was about double of a NG furnace with air. After 10 years the compressor went out. Best price was $2000 plus labor. It hit the trash and I went with a Natural Gas system with AC. Heating bill was about half of Geo. Ac was about the same. NG seems to be the best way by far. At least for right now if you have it available.

 

[churchmouse]

I'll chime in to say my body hates my heat pump, but my wallet loves it.

yes, I said WALLET!!!!

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Even the new ones fall off at low outdoor temps. With Propane as a back up the differences in discharge temps at the supply registers will be very different. That is why most are electric back up heat. It cycles in by stages so you do not get blasted with a higher discharge temp when the pump needs assistance to keep up. Pumps are OK if you like a moderately heated home.

To make the switch you will need to change out the entire system. Outdoor unit/line set/indoor air handler/coil/T-stat and add resistance heat as a back up to the pump. The ceiling heat can not be tied in to back up the pump. The new R-410A refrigerant is the reason. These new units are decent enough. You will lower the energy bills both winter and summer due to the high seer efficiency of the new systems and the pump will save over the resistance you are now using.

Propane is right up there with resistance heat. It is a bit less but still greater than natural gas by far. Is natural available??

You will find both advocates and anti's when asking about heat pumps. The new systems can be purchased with an out of the box 10 year parts warr. these days so all in all it is not a huge gamble.
If you or the wife are at all cold nature this might not be the best idea.

If you need further help feel free to PM me.

 

[churchmouse]

He has radiant heat. Probably seperately controlled.

Most line voltage radiant is controlled room by room with line voltage states like the ones for base board.

 

[HoughMade]

I had one also... About 25 years ago. Open loop... Was not that impressed... Did work well... Was fairly noisy...The cost to install was about double of a NG furnace with air. After 10 years the compressor went out. Best price was $2000 plus labor. It hit the trash and I went with a Natural Gas system with AC. Heating bill was about half of Geo. Ac was about the same. NG seems to be the best way by far. At least for right now if you have it available.

If you have natural gas available, by all means. Dad does not.

 

[Echelon]

What about a hybrid system? I'm considering one for the house we are about to build.

Hybrid as in Heat Pump / Natural Gas hybrid, where the system runs the heat pump until a gas is needed. I keep hearing good things about this type of setup.... Thoughts?

 

[eric001]

What about a hybrid system? I'm considering one for the house we are about to build.

Hybrid as in Heat Pump / Natural Gas hybrid, where the system runs the heat pump until a gas is needed. I keep hearing good things about this type of setup.... Thoughts?

Just had this put in a couple months ago for my house. The heat pump is so quiet you can't hear it from less than 10 feet away outside, not going to hear it inside. The backup natural gas furnace comes on in stages so I can never tell exactly when it kicks from heat pump to furnace doing the heating. Wasn't cheap, but definitely a winning combo.

 

[sig-guy]

As far as I know, the only thing that has changed is the refrigerant?

Ya don't think the technology/efficiency has improved over the years?

 

[sig-guy]

We had annual maintenance and was always told it is functioning as it should. When I told them it would not keep up in the winter, they lied to me and stated that's the way it is with a heat pump.

Fixed that one for ya...

 

[sig-guy]

The ceiling heat can not be tied in to back up the pump.

Sure it can... just not as simple or sensible.

 

[BobDaniels]

What specifically would you like to know? How exactly it works? Price and parts has already been broken down. You wanting to know utility costs old vs new?

By "more questions" I am referring to what type of system to install. I thought I had it nailed down to a heat pump system, but now am not so sure. My primary intent of this thread is to gather information from folks that are not trying to sell something to me.

 

[BobDaniels]

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Even the new ones fall off at low outdoor temps. With Propane as a back up the differences in discharge temps at the supply registers will be very different. That is why most are electric back up heat. It cycles in by stages so you do not get blasted with a higher discharge temp when the pump needs assistance to keep up. Pumps are OK if you like a moderately heated home.

To make the switch you will need to change out the entire system. Outdoor unit/line set/indoor air handler/coil/T-stat and add resistance heat as a back up to the pump. The ceiling heat can not be tied in to back up the pump. The new R-410A refrigerant is the reason. These new units are decent enough. You will lower the energy bills both winter and summer due to the high seer efficiency of the new systems and the pump will save over the resistance you are now using.

Propane is right up there with resistance heat. It is a bit less but still greater than natural gas by far. Is natural available??

You will find both advocates and anti's when asking about heat pumps. The new systems can be purchased with an out of the box 10 year parts warr. these days so all in all it is not a huge gamble.
If you or the wife are at all cold nature this might not be the best idea.

If you need further help feel free to PM me.

Understood and dissapointed that I have to scrap the current system. It is a good system and is only about 5 to 10 years old, so maybe I can get a few bucks for it off craigslist or the like.

How low of temps are we talking about before there is noticable drop off?

We're out in the sticks, so NG is not an option. As for being cold natured, I can deal with it, the Mrs will complain, but I should be able to handle that with some sort of space heater for the living room. Plus, I am working on an insert for the fireplace which should heat the core of the house with no input from the heat pump.

Thank you for your input!

 

[BobDaniels]

What about a hybrid system? I'm considering one for the house we are about to build.

Hybrid as in Heat Pump / Natural Gas hybrid, where the system runs the heat pump until a gas is needed. I keep hearing good things about this type of setup.... Thoughts?

After this thread, a hybrid system is now in consideration, but as someone else stated, I'm guessing it won't be cheap.

 

[BobDaniels]

Ya don't think the technology/efficiency has improved over the years?

I really do not know, which is the purpose of this thread.

Sure it can... just not as simple or sensible.

The radiant heat will be disabled once the new system is in place. Main reasons are the amount of space it takes in the load center and I would like to install ceiling lights and/or ceiling fans in some rooms as basically none of the rooms currently have ceiling lights.

 

[remauto1187]

Have you considered a wood pellet stove/Fireplace insert? Many can heat 2000sq ft home and alot higher depending on their size. I have a Pelpro unit and it has a 40lb hopper. $750 at menards and the 40lb bags of hardwood pellets are $4 each on sale ($5 reg). Average consumption on by 35000btu unit is 1-1.5 bags per 24hrs. Very easy maintenance and the fireplace insert units are very nice.

I would put a burn barrel in the middle of the living room BEFORE i would put a heat pump system outside!

 

[churchmouse]

Sure it can... just not as simple or sensible.

Of course it can silly. Who would want to pay for that.....


KISS program.

 

[churchmouse]

With a proper install and good back up in the AH you should have a very smooth transition to resistance back up. It may or may not be noticeable. A "Good" 13 seer or higher unit (expense goes up and return is questionable) properly sized and installed Air handler/back up heat package and a good solid supply and return duct system you should have smooth sailing and some decent energy savings.

If you are looking into a Hybrid system have a defib unit standing by when you see the pprice.