More Research Shows Link Between Pesticides and Autism

[steveh_131]

I might challege that too. Coke had already switched to HFCS by the time I started drinking it. There also weren't any options to even avoid it back then. I ate bologna and hot dogs on white bread, drank kool-aid and coke, and ate candy that I'm sure was horrible for me too. The fruit and veggies I had were probably covered in pesticides.

I'm just saying that the "good old days" were rarely ever as good as we remember and were likely worse.

The good old days were definitely not worse in terms of pesticides.

Roundup-ready GMO crops were a game changer.

 

[ViperJock]

The potential to get a disease is not a yes or no thing. (I know INGO has a major problem understanding "gray area"). Some things increase likelihood of disease in susceptible populations but do not cause disease in everyone. Sometimes people who get a certain disease also have variability in the expression of that disease. Mental development is so variable to begin with it may be nearly impossible to follow real incidence and causation. Especially as it becomes politically correct to rename everything we used to call "mental retardation" as Autism so that kids don't have the stigma of being calked retarded. Having an autistic kid is almost en vogue whereas having a retarded kid is, well, not as hip.

Use smoking tobacco as an example: some people never develop any significant health issues. Some people get head or neck cancers. Others get lung cancers. Some get emphysema. Some get random assortment of those diseases or other diseases I haven't mentioned.
OR
Sun exposure causes melanoma but only a small percentage of people exposed to the sun develop it.

Think of autism as a possibility along a spectrum if a genetically predisposed mother or child is exposed to the wrong stimulus at the wrong time in the child's development whether as an egg, embryo, fetus, or early childhood. It will be very difficult to prove the causation and in fact may have multiple causal factors each one of which could contribute or possibly even require multiple factors for expression.

 

[steveh_131]

Mental development is so variable to begin with it may be nearly impossible to follow real incidence and causation. Especially as it becomes politically correct to rename everything we used to call "mental retardation" as Autism so that kids don't have the stigma of being calked retarded.

Politically correct? What are you talking about? Mental retardation and autism have entirely different diagnostic criteria.

Having an autistic kid is almost en vogue whereas having a retarded kid is, well, not as hip.

Are you kidding me? Having an autistic child results in substantial social isolation for most families. I dare you to spend 24 hours participating in the struggles of a family with an autistic child and tell them how "hip" they are.

Use smoking tobacco as an example: some people never develop any significant health issues. Some people get head or neck cancers. Others get lung cancers. Some get emphysema. Some get random assortment of those diseases or other diseases I haven't mentioned.
OR
Sun exposure causes melanoma but only a small percentage of people exposed to the sun develop it.

Think of autism as a possibility along a spectrum if a genetically predisposed mother or child is exposed to the wrong stimulus at the wrong time in the child's development whether as an egg, embryo, fetus, or early childhood. It will be very difficult to prove the causation and in fact may have multiple causal factors each one of which could contribute or possibly even require multiple factors for expression.

The rest of this is true.

 

[ViperJock]

Politically correct? What are you talking about? Mental retardation and autism have entirely different diagnostic criteria.



Are you kidding me? Having an autistic child results in substantial social isolation for most families. I dare you to spend 24 hours participating in the struggles of a family with an autistic child and tell them how "hip" they are.



The rest of this is true.

lol. I'm not talking about the actual trials of families with autistic kids feeling special. I'm talking about the society treats it. Also you are both correct and incorrect in your assessment that MR is different than autism. Autism is a Mental disorder (-you're right not really MR as such)spectrum condition. Although it has specific criteria, you will find that kids with all sorts of issues are being called "autistic" because their parents and or doctors know that autism has a more "respectable" connotation than just say Fragile X syndrome or "learning disability". That's what I mean by en vogue. Not that autism is somehow "fun" to deal with. You misunderstand my meaning.

 

[steveh_131]

lol. I'm not talking about the actual trials of families with autistic kids feeling special. I'm talking about the society treats it. Also you are both correct and incorrect in your assessment that MR is different than autism. Autism is a Mental disorder (-you're right not really MR as such)spectrum condition. Although it has specific criteria, you will find that kids with all sorts of issues are being called "autistic" because their parents and or doctors know that autism has a more "respectable" connotation than just say Fragile X syndrome or "learning disability". That's what I mean by en vogue. Not that autism is somehow "fun" to deal with. You misunderstand my meaning.

"en vogue" means fashionable or popular.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. It's more respectable to have an autistic child than a mentally retarded child? Or a child with fragile X?

And you think that autism is over-diagnosed for this reason?

 

[ViperJock]

"en vogue" means fashionable or popular.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. It's more respectable to have an autistic child than a mentally retarded child? Or a child with fragile X?

And you think that autism is over-diagnosed for this reason?

In a manner of speaking, yes. In fact I know it is. I'm not in any way saying autism is easy or cool, but I know that there are people out there carrying the diagnosis when they don't meet criteria. Now, I ask you; why? IMO there are secondary gains to be had. More support, more sympathy? Less disrespect for the child? Any number of reasons why parents might prefer to have the label of autism vs some other diagnosis. That wasn't really the point of my original post, but it does contribute to the increasing incidence of the disease then, does it not?

my point was rather to show challenges in getting good data in this case.

 

[steveh_131]

In a manner of speaking, yes. In fact I know it is. I'm not in any way saying autism is easy or cool, but I know that there are people out there carrying the diagnosis when they don't meet criteria. Now, I ask you; why?

Not because it is 'fashionable' or 'popular', I'm fairly certain. And not because of political correctness.

IMO there are secondary gains to be had. More support, more sympathy? Less disrespect for the child? Any number of reasons why parents might prefer to have the label of autism vs some other diagnosis. That wasn't really the point of my original post, but it does contribute to the increasing incidence of the disease then, does it not?

my point was rather to show challenges in getting good data in this case.

This I'll agree with (in VERY limited cases, in my experience), and I'll re-iterate that I'm not interested in debating the position that the actual incidence of autism is on the rise.

Whether it is rising or not, it is a very widespread problem. A dozen cases of measles in a big city gets called an 'epidemic' in newspapers nationwide, but you folks are quibbling over using the same word to describe millions of legitimately neurologically damaged children?

Getting back to the actual point of this thread:

Our air, food supply and water supply are all being continuously contaminated with poisons that appear to have a strong correlation to neurological damage in our unborn children.

 

[forgop]

It's comical to see people who don't expwrience and live with autism on a daily basis comment about what they perceive it to be like.

 

[ViperJock]

It's comical to see people who don't expwrience and live with autism on a daily basis comment about what they perceive it to be like.

Oh really? And how do you know which of us do and which don't? How do you know which have family or perhaps teach or have as patients or any other number of factors that would give us a different perspective than you have?

 

[ViperJock]

Not because it is 'fashionable' or 'popular', I'm fairly certain. And not because of political correctness.




This I'll agree with (in VERY limited cases, in my experience), and I'll re-iterate that I'm not interested in debating the position that the actual incidence of autism is on the rise.

Whether it is rising or not, it is a very widespread problem. A dozen cases of measles in a big city gets called an 'epidemic' in newspapers nationwide, but you folks are quibbling over using the same word to describe millions of legitimately neurologically damaged children?

Getting back to the actual point of this thread:

Our air, food supply and water supply are all being continuously contaminated with poisons that appear to have a strong correlation to neurological damage in our unborn children.

Wasn't really my point either. In fact I am largely agreeing with you. I was supporting your position in my original post against the folks that say "well, I ate msg every day for 18yrs and I'm ok." I only brought up the misdiagnosis issue to further demonstrate how complicated determine an etiology can be. Note; a causes b. a does not cause c. c is misrepresented as b. Do you see how that would call a as the etiology of b into question? That's my point.

 

[steveh_131]

Wasn't really my point either. In fact I am largely agreeing with you. I was supporting your position in my original post against the folks that say "well, I ate msg every day for 18yrs and I'm ok." I only brought up the misdiagnosis issue to further demonstrate how complicated determine an etiology can be. Note; a causes b. a does not cause c. c is misrepresented as b. Do you see how that would call a as the etiology of b into question? That's my point.

Fair enough.

Would you agree that the particular labels assigned are fairly irrelevant to the conclusions of this particular study? It covered a wide range of developmental disorders.

 

[forgop]

Oh really? And how do you know which of us do and which don't? How do you know which have family or perhaps teach or have as patients or any other number of factors that would give us a different perspective than you have?

Those who deal first hand with autism make no.assertion that there are "gains" to be made for having a child that meets the criteria necessary for a development disorder nor do they call it is a disease.

That's for starters...

 

[indiucky]

It's comical to see people who don't expwrience and live with autism on a daily basis comment about what they perceive it to be like.

As the parent of a beautiful 10 year old daughter on the spectrum I LOVE these threads......NO ONE...And I mean NO ONE (not even my parents) have any idea what it is like or what a blessing it can be.........The folks that are constantly trying to "blame" autism on outside factors tend to be folks who buy into conspiracy theories (9/11, Bilderberg Group, Vaccines, Genetically Engineered food, etc....) and seem to think every thing of ill will that happens must have a "cause" and that "cause" will often be "greedy corporationy types who are all corporationy and stuff..."

Psychologists have studied this phenomena and it is normal...Some folks have trouble dealing with "bad things happen to good people" and will look for a way to place blame on an outside source (or an inside source as in the 9/11 conspiracy theories) rather than accepting that "Sh&t Happens" sometimes...We have enrolled our daughter in a program called "Learning RX" (or as we call it "Harvard" judging by the cost) and all of her test scores went WAY UP!!!!!! Her "vocabulary comprehension" is at the level of a 20 year old.....We just keep plugging away and keep doing what works and stop doing what doesn't work....

Wondering "Why us?" never did squat for her...Wondering "How did this happen?" didn't do much either.....My wife never giving up is what did to something for our daughter..."Minds in Motion" was also beneficial to our daughter...


All offered IMHO based on 10 and a half years of a Blessing...

 

[88GT]

Those who deal first hand with autism make no.assertion that there are "gains" to be made for having a child that meets the criteria necessary for a development disorder nor do they call it is a disease.

That's for starters...

It's comical to see the people who don't experience and live with liars, cheaters, and manipulators on a regular basis comment on the fact that nobody would use autism to their benefit. The number may be small, but medical fraud is rampant and it's ludicrous to believe that there aren't diagnoses for autism because the parent perceives a benefit from it.

Moreover, I'd have to agree with VJ that there is a subset of families dealing with autism that wear that fact as a badge of honor.

 

[steveh_131]

The folks that are constantly trying to "blame" autism on outside factors tend to be folks who buy into conspiracy theories (9/11, Bilderberg Group, Vaccines, Genetically Engineered food, etc....) and seem to think every thing of ill will that happens must have a "cause" and that "cause" will often be "greedy corprationy types who are all corporationy and stuff..."

Then can I safely assume that you have an alternate theory that explains the correlation between proximity to these pesticides and increased incidence of autism spectrum disorders?

Psychologists have studied this phenomena and it is normal

What? Source?

...Some folks have trouble dealing with "bad things happen to good people" and will look for a way to place blame on an outside source (or an inside source as in the 9/11 conspiracy theories) rather than accepting that "Sh&t Happens" sometimes.

I know, right? I really hate these scientists who are trying to figure out disease processes and ways to prevent and cure them. Crazy conspiracy theorists.

Wondering "Why us?" never did squat for her...Wondering "How did this happen?" didn't do much either.....My wife never giving up is what did to something for our daughter..."Minds in Motion" was also beneficial to our daughter...

There are other people in this world. People who just might want to know ways they can lower their chances of having an autistic child. If you want to keep your head buried in the sand, feel free.

 

[indiucky]

Then can I safely assume that you have an alternate theory that explains the correlation between proximity to these pesticides and increased incidence of autism spectrum disorders?



What? Source?



I know, right? I really hate these scientists who are trying to figure out disease processes and ways to prevent and cure them. Crazy conspiracy theorists.
[/COLOR]


[/COLOR]There are other people in this world. People who just might want to know ways they can lower their chances of having an autistic child. If you want to keep your head buried in the sand, feel free.

Okay......As far as the "source" on people blaming things on outside sources it is as old as mankind itself...It's normal and part of the human condition...I am not going to insult you by saying "your head is buried in the sand". It is common knowledge and anyone who has ever lost a family member due to illness knows there will be one family member saying "them Doctors killed him as if they had put a gun to his head with them thar shots"....It's just part of being human....


I can't imagine why anyone would want to "lower their chances" on having an autistic child.... I am sorry I don't even get what that means.....I consider myself lucky..... I never bought into that whole Hitler/Margaret Sanger/Eugenics thing but that's just me...I am sure it has merit to those who think they are actually in control of what kind of child they will be blessed with....

When it comes to the subject of autism I can assure you that my head is not buried in the sand...Seriously it's not......150 years ago I would have demanded an apology but in this day and age I will have to be satisfied with telling you it is not and hoping you have the courtesy to believe me when I say that........

 

[steveh_131]

Okay......As far as the "source" on people blaming things on outside sources it is as old as mankind itself...It's normal and part of the human condition...I am not going to insult you by saying "your head is buried in the sand". It is common knowledge and anyone who has ever lost a family member due to illness knows there will be one family member saying "them Doctors killed him as if they had put a gun to his head with them thar shots"....It's just part of being human....

My apologies, I thought you were saying that psychologists had decided that autism is 'normal'.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to "lower their chances" on having an autistic child.... I am sorry I don't even get what that means.....I consider myself lucky..... I never bought into that whole Hitler/Margaret Sanger/Eugenics thing but that's just me...I am sure it has merit to those who think they are actually in control of what kind of child they will be blessed with....

Would you "lower your chances" of having a child with fetal alcohol syndrome by expecting your wife not to abuse alcohol during her pregnancy? Is that equivalent to eugenics? Should she go ahead and get plastered and leave it up to God?

Some people try to avoid things that could poison their unborn child. Silly little Hitlers.

When it comes to the subject of autism I can assure you that my head is not buried in the sand...Seriously it's not......150 years ago I would have demanded an apology but in this day and age I will have to be satisfied with telling you it is not and hoping you have the courtesy to believe me when I say that........

You don't care what caused it and you don't care what could be done to avoid it in the future. To me, that qualifies as choosing to remain ignorant. Which is your choice and your right, but let's call it what it is.

 

[indiucky]

The number may be small, but medical fraud is rampant and it's ludicrous to believe that there aren't diagnoses for autism because the parent perceives a benefit from it.

Moreover, I'd have to agree with VJ that there is a subset of families dealing with autism that wear that fact as a badge of honor.

Our insurance paid nothing for any of our daughter's care due to autism...I am not saying that people won't try to scam them one day but our experiance has shown that when it comes to autism there is no fraud because the insurance companies are not paying for anything we have had done....We were able to get our daughter into preschool one year earlier so I guess that was an example where her autism helped us a little.....

I wear it as a badge of honor but if she was normal and a 4.0 average I would probably be just as proud...Maybe....

 

[indiucky]

My apologies, I thought you were saying that psychologists had decided that autism is 'normal'.



Would you "lower your chances" of having a child with fetal alcohol syndrome by expecting your wife not to abuse alcohol during her pregnancy? Is that equivalent to eugenics? Should she go ahead and get plastered and leave it up to God?

Some people try to avoid things that could poison their unborn child. Silly little Hitlers.



You don't care what caused it and you don't care what could be done to avoid it in the future. To me, that qualifies as choosing to remain ignorant. Which is your choice and your right, but let's call it what it is.

I have been polite...

You call me ignorant because I accept that the world is an imperfect place and that there is a place for imperfect children in an imperfect world.....I was trying to educate you on the fact that an autistic child is perfect to some people people and not seen as a detriment and you go off on "alcohol syndrome babies" and that a child like mine is "something to be avoided in the future..."

Autistic kids are really a blessing...Quit worrying about what kind of child you may or may not have in the future, just love them when they get here and do the best for them as you can.....

 

[steveh_131]

You call me ignorant because I accept that the world is an imperfect place and that there is a place for imperfect children in an imperfect world.

I didn't call you ignorant. I said that you choose to remain ignorant, although I should have said that you choose to remain ignorant on this subject... because that is what you said. You said you don't care. Right?

....I was trying to educate you on the fact that an autistic child is perfect to some people people and not seen as a detriment and you go off on "alcohol syndrome babies" and that a child like mine is "something to be avoided in the future..."

A child with fetal alcohol syndrome may be perfect to his or her parents as well. Does that mean we should not try to avoid poisoning our unborn children with large amounts of alcohol?

Autistic kids are really a blessing...Quit worrying about what kind of child you may or may not have in the future, just love them when they get here and do the best for them as you can.....

Every child is a blessing. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to avoid damaging them.